Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

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Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

Postby gavesako » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:20 am

References including modern Sri Lankan, Burmese and Thai interpretations:


Mahāsupina Jātaka (No. 77)

Pasenadi, king of Kosala, had, one night, sixteen bad dreams, and his brahmins, on being consulted, said that they presaged harm either to his kingdom, his life, or his wealth, and prescribed all manner of sacrifices in order to avert the danger (It is perhaps this sacrifice which is referred to at S.i.75).

Mallikā, the king's wife, heard of this and suggested that the Buddha should be consulted. The king followed her advice, and the Buddha explained the dreams.

The first dream was of wild bulls entering the royal courtyard to fight but retiring after roaring and bellowing. This, said the Buddha, meant that, in future, when wicked kings rule, rain clouds will gather, but there will be no rain.
The second dream was of trees and shrubs sprouting from the earth which flowered and bore fruit when only about one span high. This foretold a time when men would be short lived owing to their lusts.
In the third dream cows sucked calves which were hardly a day old. This showed that, in the future, the young would refuse respect to the old.
The fourth dream was of sturdy draught oxen standing by, while young steers tried to draw loads. This signified a time when the administration of affairs will be entrusted to the young and inexperienced, while the wise and old stand by.
The fifth dream was of a horse which ate from two mouths, one on either side of its body, which foretold a time when the king's justices will take bribes from contending parties and give themselves to corruption.
The sixth dream was of people holding a very valuable golden bowl and asking a jackal to stale therein. This shows that, in the future, kings will exalt the low born and noble maidens will be mated with upstarts.
The seventh dream was of a man holding a rope which he trailed at his feet, while a she jackal kept on eating it. This foretold a time when women will lose their sense of modesty and behave badly.
In the eighth dream was a big pitcher at the palace gates filled with water and surrounded by empty ones. This foretold a time when kings will be poor and set the whole country working for them, the people being left in extreme poverty.
The ninth dream was of a deep pool with sloping banks overgrown with lotus. Men and beasts entered the pond; the middle was muddy, but at the edges was crystal water. This meant that in the future there would be unrighteous kings oppressing the people, who would leave the capital and take refuge in the frontier districts.
The tenth dream was of rice cooking in a pot, which rice, instead of cooking evenly, remained in three parts: some sodden, some raw, some well cooked; this showed that in the future men of all classes, even brahmins and sages, will be wicked, the very forces of nature will be against them, and their harvest will be spoiled.
The eleventh dream was of men bartering butter milk for precious sandal wood, and presaged a time when the Dhamma would decay and its votaries clamour for money and gifts.
The twelfth dream was of empty pumpkins sinking in the water; the world will be reversed: the low born will become great lords and the noble sink into poverty.
In the thirteenth dream solid blocks of rock floated in the water; nobles and wise men will be scorned while upstarts shall have their own way.
In the fourteenth dream tiny frogs chewed huge snakes and ate them; a time will come when men, because of their lusts, will become the slaves of their wives and be ruled by them.
The fifteenth dream was of a wicked village crow attended by mallards; kings will arise, ignorant and cowardly, who will rise to power, not their peers, but their footmen, barbers, and the like; nobles will be reduced to waiting on these upstarts.
In the sixteenth dream goats chased panthers, devouring them; the lowborn will be raised to lordship and nobles will sink into obscurity and distress; when the latter plead for their rights, the king's minions will have them cudgelled and bastinadoed.

Having thus explained the dreams, the Buddha told Pasenadi a story of the past. A king of Benares, named Brahmadatta, had dreams similar to those of Pasenadi. When he consulted the brahmins, they began to prepare sacrifices. A young brahmin protested, saying that animal sacrifice was against the teaching of the Vedas, but they would not listen. The Bodhisatta, who was a hermit in the Himālaya, possessed of insight, became aware of what was happening, travelled through the air and took his seat in the park. There he was seen by a young brahmin, who brought the king to the park. The Bodhisatta heard the king's dreams and explained them to his satisfaction.

Ananda was the king and Sāriputta the young brahmin. J.i.334-45.



http://www.palikanon.com/namen/maha/mah ... at_077.htm





2012: Buddhist Prophecy (Sixteen Dreams)

Wisdom Quarterly (condensed translation, Mahasupina Jataka, Jatakakatha)



http://wisdomquarterly.blogspot.com/201 ... reams.html





Mahasupina Jataka: The Sixteen Dreams (Jataka 77)

Retold by Ken and Visakha Kawasaki



http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... bl144.html





MAHĀSUPINA-JĀTAKA

The Jataka, Volume I, tr. by Robert Chalmers, [1895]

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/j1/j1080.htm





King Pasenadi of Kosala and his sixteen dreams

by Premasara EPASINGHE

A Dream can be defined as sequence of scenes and feelings occurring in the mind during sleep. It may be your sub-conscious mind react in your sleep. What is a Bad Dream? It is a situation that is so unpleasant, one cannot believe it is real. Even today, some people are of the opinion that the dreams that they see sometimes true in their life.

http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2010/06/13/spe13.asp





Dreams of the Remote Future

http://www.lawsofthenature.com/DreamsOf ... uture.aspx







Buddhist Tales for Young and Old

The 16 Frightening Dreams (Chapter 1.)



http://www.buddhanet.net/bt_24.htm





Phra Acariya Thoon Khippapanno

Buddha's 16 Prophecies

http://www.archive.org/details/Buddhas16Prophecies







16 Predictions of the Buddha

By Phra Khru Palat Veeranon Veerananto



For those of you that have read the previous book, there might have been an improvement of the literary style with clearer explanations which mentioned the changes in the world that occurred in the past, happening in the current and will happen in the future, involving nautical catastrophe like tsunami and earthquakes throughout the splitting of tectonic plates.

The second part mentions things that happened in Siam and global society.

The third part is about predictions that religious teachers have made. The book also demonstrates preparations for the confrontation with obstacles that will occur in the future.



http://www.meditationthailand.com/16predictions.htm





Thai Prophecy Verse (th: เพลงยาวพยากรณ์กรุงศรีอยุธยา, RTGS: Phleng yao phayakon krung si ayutthaya, the verse prophesying the future of Krung Si Ayutthaya) is a poetry forecasting the future of Thailand. It was composed on a par with Maha Supina Jataka in Tripitaka, the Jataka features the reply of Buddha to King Pasenadi of Kosala about the King's sixteen-fold dream.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Prophecy_Verse

http://www.thaipoet.net/index.php?lay=s ... 29&Ntype=2







พุทธทำนาย 16 ประการ ตาคลี นครสวรรค์

พระเจ้าปเสนทิโกศล ทรงสุบินนิมิต



http://www.bloggang.com/viewdiary.php?i ... =6&gblog=2





มหาสุบินชาดก..พระพุทธเจ้าทรงทำนายฝัน



http://www.moomkafae.com/index.php?lay= ... 10&Ntype=5





16 คำทำนายของพระพุทธเจ้า ชี้ชะตามนุษย์โลก



http://www.bloggang.com/viewblog.php?id ... n&group=31







Evil Dreams and the Military in Burma

by Ken and Visakha Kawasaki



http://www.brelief.org/articles2.htm









A Critical Study of Mahasupina Jataka and its Relevance to the modern Society



http://www.scribd.com/doc/67542641/1-a- ... the-Moder1



In this Jātaka story mainly focused the social problems and pointed out the existing problems in the society periphrasis way in the media of dreams. The compiler of theJātaka story was very much preferred it to convert to the words of the Buddha and tell this is happening in future not now. This is the effective way of conveying an important message to the listeners. Buddhism accepted the changing nature of the society and in the Aggañña sutta of Dighanikaya mainly discussed the evolution of the society since the human being appeared on the earth. There it has explained only the evolutionary process without any bias motivation explained it as a nature of the society. But in this Mahāsupina Jātaka every social problem has been referred in a biased way and explained in future things will change in the wrong way or unreal way. This indicates the Jātaka story has been in the society and compilers collected them and compiled them in the Jātakas to indicate it as a Buddhist story. But not all the Jātaka stories were taken from the folk tales in the society.



Why the Dreams taken as main theme in this Jātaka Story?

In Buddhism dreams have been accepted from the very beginning. Because at the time of the Buddha the society in the 6th century B.C. believed very much about dreams. Some people used to Dream Reading for their livelihood. They learned Dream Reading like astrology and used to interpret dreams by going house to house. People also kept their dreams to get the reading till they come. We are able to know that some people used to read dreams for their livelihood at that time with a passage in the Digha Nikaya. In the place of explaining the Great Moralities (Mahāsīla) that has to follow by a monk in theway of fulfilling Noble Moral code it is mentioned a monk should avoid reading dreams for his livelihood. It has been mentioned with so many subjects rejected Arts like Reading Body marks etc, (Angam nimittam uppadam ‘supinam.’). In the Anguttara Nikaya it is mentioned even the Bodhisatta on the previous night of attaining to Buddhahood had five dreams and mentioned what are the five dreams and given the meaning also for those five dreams. According to dreams it was very sure for the Bodhisattva that he was becoming a Buddha on the following day.

Though it was believed earlier that dreams are the predictions of future incidents, the famous psychologist Sigmund Freud explained dreams are fulfillment of individual’ subconscious wishes which manifest into dreams. Western way of interpreting dreams are fantasies, usually visual, experienced during sleep and certain other situations. Western psychologists divided the functions of mind during the sleep and mentioned within how many minutes after sleep the dreams can occur. Sigmund Freud mentioned the way adream can form in the mind and said a person’s dream get the mind in reverse order. Example: If the doorbell sound is reached to the ear of a person who is in sleep he gets a dream that the postman has come and rang his cycle bell. While he gets that dream then probably the man who rang the first door bell after few seconds rings the second bell also. Then the man who sleeps actually awaken because of the door bell rings. In this manner western psychologists do not say dreams can serve as future predictions. But in some rare occasions even in the west also some dreams showed nature of predictions.

It is certainly in Asia a lot of people experienced the predictions of future and some people escaped from various grave dangers because of dreams. Even in some Asian countries still believe in dreams and they try to read dreams to find out the future consequences whenever they have a dreams. That is the reason this Mahāsupina Jātaka tries to give some messages relating to future using the medium of dream. Using dreams to pass a message is an effective way to attract the listeners. Specially the messages are earlier given messages in few discourses. Therefore in order to draw the attention of listeners the compilers had to use some methods. The method they selected was to convert the massages into dreams and explain what was the dream. Then somebody has to supply the meaning to those dreams in the way of dream reading. They probably thought if these matters were included in the Jātaka story that is the most effective way to convey the message to the society.



The major factors mentioned in the Jātaka story are the factors already mentioned in the Aggañña sutta and Cakkavattisihanāda Sutta. The compilers of this Jātaka story must have thought to create some kind of fear about the wrong doings of masses. For that they have selected some of the changes which are happening in the societies to say those things will be the future incidents. They probably wanted to tell it to the present kings but they were frightened to say that therefore they put the words to the Buddha’s mouth and said “Sir, these things will not affect to me or to you, but these are the things happening in the future”. Most of the problems are social problems that have been mentioned here apart from some environmental problems and those social problems are inevitable due to the changes of societies within the time but people do not like to accept those changes. That kind of changes visible at their times also mentioned these are some things happening future. The important factor mentioned in this study is how the mind of people will affect the environment. This factors also more often explained in Buddhism but that is worth reiterating time to time for the purpose of educating people. That is what for specially this Jātaka story was compiled.





Jataka tales

According to A.K. Warder, the Jatakas are the precursors to the various legendary biographies of the Buddha, which were composed at later dates.

Within the Pali tradition, there are also many apocryphal Jatakas of later composition (some dated even to the 19th century) but these are treated as a separate category of literature from the "Official" Jataka stories that have been more-or-less formally canonized from at least the 5th century — as attested to in ample epigraphic and archaeological evidence, such as extant illustrations in bas relief from ancient temple walls. Some of the apocryphal Jatakas (in Pali) show direct appropriations from Hindu sources, with amendments to the plots to better reflect Buddhist morals.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jataka_tales





Jataka Gathas and Jataka Commentary

By M. Winternitz

http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-ENG/win.htm



It is of the utmost importance to know how far

the Jatakas can be used for historical purposes, more

especially for the history of Indian literary types,

and for the history of social life and institutions

in ancient India. H.Oldenberg(l) has used the Jatakas

in support of his famous, though now no longer

accepted, "Akhyana-theory", claiming them as proving

the existence, from the Vedic period onwards, of a

type of narrative poetry, composed in a mixture of

prose and verse, of which the verses only were

committed to memory and handed down, while the prose

story was left to be narrated by every reciter in his

own words.(2) G. Buhler(3), R.Fick(4), T.W. Rhys

Davids(5) and Mrs. Rhys Davids(1) were of opinion that the Jatakas such as we

have them give a picture of Indian life in the days

of Buddha, that is, in the sixth and fifth century

B.C., or at least at the time of the redaction of the

canon in the third century B.C. Since then, however,

it has become the almost general opinion of scholars

that only the Jataka-Gathas can claim canonical

authority, and be regarded as documents of the third,

or even the fifth century B.C., while the Jataka

Commentary, as we have it, can claim no higher

antiquity than the fifth or sixth century A.D.,

though in its prose parts also it contains old

traditions which in many cases may go back to the

same early period as the Gathas. More over, it was

generally believed that the original canonical

Jataka, consisting of Gathas only, was preserved to

us in the Phayre Ms. of Jataka verses.

The prose was always more exposed to changes and enlargements.

Frequently it is nothing but the poor performance of

some inferior writer, especially when, as is often

the case, no prose is required at all. It is in the

prose only that allusions occur to Ceylon, and not

infrequently it is at variance with the Gathas. The

language of the Gathas, too, is more archaic than

that of the prose.

It is true that in some Jatakas, Gathas and prose

form a homogeneous whole. In many others, however,

the proses are nothing but useless commentatorial

accessories. Therefore the Jatakas cannot be taken as

examples of the ancient Indian Akhyana in the sense

of the prose-and-verse type of narrative, as

Oldenberg understood it. Not one, but several

literary types are represented in the Jataka

Collection. There are some Jatakas which were prose

stories with only one or two or a few verses

containing either the moral or the gist of the tale.

In these cases it is likely enough that the

commentary has preserved more or less of the old

prose stories. Another type of Jatakas is that of the

Campu in which the story itself is related

alternately in prose and verse, in which case the

commentary is often an expansion of the original

prose text. But there are other Jatakas which

originally consisted of Gathas only: some of them

ballads in dialogue form, others ballads in a mixture

of dialogue verses and narrative stanzas, others

again epics or fragments, and some even mere strings

of moral maxims to think that the monks who

translated from Sinhalese into Pali would take

canonical and even uncanonical Pali texts, wherever

they were available, from the original Pali works,

and not take the trouble of translating them from

Sinhalese. When we meet with the same stories in

different commentaries, it is not necessary to assume

that the one has copied from the other. It is more

probable that they were copied from the same

pre-existing sources. Many Jatakas, especially the

longer ones, probably existed as independent texts,

before they were included in a Commentary or

Collection. on some topic. In all these cases the entire prose

belongs to the commentary(1).

From all this it follows that when using any part

of the Jataka Book for historical purposes, we shall

always have to ask ourselves first, to which stratum

of the text that part belongs.






:zzz:


Milindapañha on Dreams:



“Nimittametaṃ, mahārāja, supinaṃ nāma, yaṃ cittassa āpātamupagacchati. Chayime, mahārāja, supinaṃ passanti, vātiko supinaṃ passati, pittiko supinaṃ passati, semhiko supinaṃ passati, devatūpasaṃhārato supinaṃ passati, samudāciṇṇato supinaṃ passati, pubbanimittato supinaṃ passati, tatra, mahārāja, yaṃ pubbanimittato supinaṃ passati, taṃyeva saccaṃ, avasesaṃ micchā”ti.

http://studies.worldtipitaka.org/tipita ... /6.3/6.3.5



Who sees dreams? There are six kinds of person who see dreams. They are...

1. Vātiko = the person suffers from wind.

2. Pittiko = the bilious person.

3. Semhiko = the phlegmatic person.

4. Devatūpasamhārato = the person possessed of a deva.

5. Samudācinnato = the person influenced by his own habits.

6. Pubbanimittato = the person sees a dream as a portent.





Dreams



What is this thing that people call a dream and who dreams it?

King Milinda said “Venerable Nāgasena, men and women in this world see dreams pleasant and evil, things they have seen before and things they have not seen before, things they have done or have not done before, dreams peaceful and terrible, dream of matters near to them and distant from them, full of many shapes and innumerable colors. What is this that men call a dream, and who is it who dreams it?

That is called a supinam (dream), sire, is a suggestion that comes into the focus of the mind. There are six kinds of people who see dreams, the person who suffer from wind, the bilious and phlegmatic person possessed of a Deva, the person influenced by his own habit, and the person who sees a dream as a portent. Among these, only the last kind is true, the rest are false.”

“Bhante Nāgasena, in regard to him who sees a dream as a portent, does his mind, going along of its own accord, seek for that portent or does that portent come into the focus of the mind, does anyone else come and tell him of it?”

“It is not, that his mind going along of its own accord, seeks for that portent nor does someone else come and tell him of it, but that comes into the focus of his mind. It is like a mirror that does not go anywhere to seek for a reflection, nor does someone else bringing a reflection put it on the mirror, but the reflection comes from wherever it appears in the mirror.”



“Venerable Nāgasena, does the mind that sees a dream also know, so will be peaceful or frightening?”

“No, that is not so. He speaks to others about it and they then speak to him of its meaning when the portent has arisen.”



“Venerable Nāgasena, give me a smile to explain this, please.”

“It is as the moles, boils or itches that arise on a people’s body are to their gain or loss, their repute or disrepute praise or blame, happiness or sorrow -- but as these boils arise, do they know we will bring about such and such an event?”

“No, Venerable, according to the place where these boils occur, so do the fortune-tellers, seeing them there, explain such indeed will be the result.”

“Even so, sire, the mind that sees the dream does not know, ‘Thus will be the result, peaceful or frightening.’ But he speaks to others about it and they then speak to him of its meaning when the portent has arisen.”







Supina Sutta: Five Dreams of the Bodhisatta



http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"Now, when the Tathagata — worthy & rightly self-awakened — was still just an unawakened bodhisatta, and this great earth was his great bed, the Himalayas, king of mountains, was his pillow, his left hand rested in the eastern sea, his right hand in the western sea, and both feet in the southern sea: this first great dream appeared to let him know that he would awaken to the unexcelled right self-awakening.

"When the Tathagata — worthy & rightly self-awakened — was still just an unawakened bodhisatta, and a woody vine growing out of his navel stood reaching to the sky: this second great dream appeared to let him know that when he had awakened to the noble eightfold path, he would proclaim it well as far as there are human & celestial beings.

"When the Tathagata — worthy & rightly self-awakened — was still just an unawakened bodhisatta, and white worms with black heads crawling up from his feet covered him as far as his knees: this third great dream appeared to let him know that many white-clothed householders would go for life-long refuge to the Tathagata.

"When the Tathagata — worthy & rightly self-awakened — was still just an unawakened bodhisatta, and four different-colored birds coming from the four directions fell at his feet and turned entirely white: this fourth great dream appeared to let him know that people from the four castes — priests, noble-warriors, merchants, and laborers — having gone forth from the home life into homelessness in the Dhamma & Vinaya taught by the Tathagata, would realize unexcelled release.

"When the Tathagata — worthy & rightly self-awakened — was still just an unawakened bodhisatta, and he walked back & forth on top of a giant mountain of excrement but was not soiled by the excrement: this fifth great dream appeared to let him know that the Tathagata would receive gifts of robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites to cure the sick, but he would use them unattached to them, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks [of attachment to them], and discerning the escape from them.

"When the Tathagata — worthy & rightly self-awakened — was still just an unawakened bodhisatta, these five great dreams appeared to him."
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

Postby gavesako » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:22 pm

Example of how Jataka stories can be used subversively to undermine political regimes which are only paying lip-service to "Buddhism":

Burmese abbot banned over ‘dog’ sermon

Chiang Mai (Mizzima) – The highest State sangha authority in Burma has banned Abbot U Thumingala of Mingala Monastery in Hmawbi Township from preaching sermons for one year.
Abbot U Thumingala was banned from giving talks in 2008 and 2009.
The ban came after the abbot gave a talk titled “He who calls a dog dad,” in which he said that banning Buddhist monks from preaching sermons is a great sin, according to the teachings of Lord Buddha.
Sources said the Home Ministry presented the talk to the president’s office, and the ban followed later. The ban extends from December 9 to December 8, 2012.
The notice said the ban was, “For inclusion of texts which are contrary to Theravada Buddhism and which criticize and apply sarcasm to different levels of authorities.”
The abbot said the sermon was delivered word for word as it is found in the jataka. “I just changed the title of the sermon,” he said.
The abbot is known for his expression, “You will go into the frying pan” instead of “You will go to hell.”

:stirthepot:

http://www.mizzima.com/news/inside-burm ... ermon.html
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:10 am

Thanks Bhante. Which Jātaka was it that he recited?

:anjali:
Mike
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Re: Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

Postby gavesako » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:56 am

Not sure, but it could well have been this one. It has been used in Burma to subtly criticize the regime.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

Postby Ytrog » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:47 pm

Are all the dreams supposed to be about something bad? With almost all I can see that, except number six: "The sixth dream was of people holding a very valuable golden bowl and asking a jackal to stale therein. This shows that, in the future, kings will exalt the low born and noble maidens will be mated with upstarts."

Isn't this just an example of the abolishment of the caste system and exactly what the Buddha wanted? :?
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.


mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments


If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.
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Re: Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

Postby gavesako » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:55 am

Indian castes have never been exported in that strict form to other SE Asian countries, but there is still until now a sense of high-born and low-born families, according to one's past kamma (see Three Worlds or Traibhumikatha in THailand for example). Our Western sense of egalitarianism that we also seem to re-discover in the Pali Canon is not a shared perception in traditional Theravada.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

Postby Ytrog » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:14 am

Ah, so I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. As I have no direct experience with the East, how are their views of egalitarianism? Do they see it as wrong view?
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.


mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments


If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.
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Re: Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:39 am

Ytrog wrote:Ah, so I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. As I have no direct experience with the East, how are their views of egalitarianism? Do they see it as wrong view?

Even it is not so verbalized, but actually there is a broadly caste thinking, as well as the whole sociaty works on strict levels of hirachy. Would not be possible in a different way. The modern egalitarianism thinking genrally very confusing, destructive and disturbing for the old structures. Its like if you tell prisoners about the world outside (not telling them that it is a prison as well). What ever we don't have we are attached.

Thanks for sharing this topic, Ven. Gavesako.

I like "But this will not be your probelm" to King Pasenadis at the end most. The "prophecies" are somehow a amazing reflexion, maybe a all time present reflection and therefor so exeptable.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Mahāsupina Jātaka: The Sixteen Dreams of King Pasenadi

Postby gavesako » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:34 pm

Here is an interesting Mahayana sutra reference to similar dreams signifying the decline of the Sasana:

http://www.shaolin.org.cn/templates/EN_ ... entid=4248
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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