Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.

Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:42 am

Greetings Tilt,

tiltbillings wrote:Of course, what I am suggesting requires a degree of mindfulness and concentration where one can simply watch the bodily sensation without comment. Sitting still for an hour, even in slouched in a nice cushy chair, one will see numerous small pains arise from which we would normally shift position to escape. We do that all the time with being barely aware, if at all, that we are doing it.

On face value though, that just shows us that unpleasant feeling is dukkha, which no doubt we already knew.

I'm sure there's more to it than that though... would you care to join-the-dots for us a little? What is it specifically about all sankharas that is dukkha?

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:59 am

retrofuturist wrote:On face value though, that just shows us that unpleasant feeling is dukkha, which no doubt we already knew.
There is a difference between conceptually "knowing" that and seeing it, especially as it plays itself out in our body
I'm sure there's more to it than that though... would you care to join-the-dots for us a little? What is it specifically about all sankharas that is dukkha?
Depends upon what you mean sankhara; Again, the primary insight is that into impermanence. What ever it is that we experience changes and there really only six things that we experience - sound, sight, taste, smell, touch, and mind "objects."

Also, it depends upon what we mean by dukkha. Many meditation experiences (and experiences in life) are not painful.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:07 am

tiltbillings wrote:By the way, it looks like I am the only one here who has directly addressed your question: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?
Excuse me, but I did answer the question. In my first post on the first page my answer to the question
retrofuturist wrote:How does one come to see this truth for themselves experientially, rather than to simply accept it as a matter of faith, or as a working hypothesis?
was:
acinteyyo wrote:The only way I can think of which would enable someone to see it experientially is citta-bhāvanā.

Citta-bhāvanā can only be performed by practice, which is the only way to experience this truth directly. I said, that I use the aspect of anicca for insight and a samatha-method to try it for myself.
Your suggestion tilt, to sit still for an hour, does not enable someone to see "sabbe sankhara dukkha" but only "dukkha" IMHO. This may be helpful to see this or that being dukkha but I don't think it enables someone to see that all sankhara are dukkha.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:24 am

Greetings Tilt,

tiltbillings wrote:Depends upon what you mean sankhara;

Let's go with a broad definition of any conditioned experience.

tiltbillings wrote:Again, the primary insight is that into impermanence.
...
Also, it depends upon what we mean by dukkha. Many meditation experiences (and experiences in life) are not painful.

But what if our experience was to oscillate between good and great. Where's the dukkha there? Or does sabbe sankhara dukkha only make full sense when contrasted against the bliss of nibbana which is unconditioned (asankhara)? And how would we come to experientially know that?

tiltbillings wrote:What ever it is that we experience changes and there really only six things that we experience - sound, sight, taste, smell, touch, and mind "objects."

Agreed.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:25 am

acinteyyo wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:By the way, it looks like I am the only one here who has directly addressed your question: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?
Excuse me, but I did answer the question. In my first post on the first page my answer to the question . . . The only way I can think of which would enable someone to see it experientially is citta-bhāvanā.
You are correct, and I am sorry for missing your posting.

acinteyyo wrote:Your suggestion tilt, to sit still for an hour, does not enable someone to see "sabbe sankhara dukkha" but only "dukkha" IMHO. This may be helpful to see this or that being dukkha but I don't think it enables someone to see that all sankhara are dukkha.
How do you see "all"? Sitting still for an hour, mindfully with concentration, may certainly give one experience to some: the body and touch, the mind and mental phenomena. It is a start.


"Monks, I will teach you the all. And what is the all? The eye and forms, the ear and sounds the nose and odors, the tongue and tastes, the body and touch, the mind and mental phenomena. This is called the all. If anyone, monks, should speak thus: ' Having rejected this all, I shall make known another all' - that would be a mere empty boast." SN IV 15.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:20 am

tiltbillings wrote:
acinteyyo wrote:Your suggestion tilt, to sit still for an hour, does not enable someone to see "sabbe sankhara dukkha" but only "dukkha" IMHO. This may be helpful to see this or that being dukkha but I don't think it enables someone to see that all sankhara are dukkha.
How do you see "all"? Sitting still for an hour, mindfully with concentration, may certainly give one experience to some: the body and touch, the mind and mental phenomena. It is a start.
Guess I may missed the point you made. Maybe we both mean the same thing, I called it "citta-bhāvanā" you called it "sit still for an hour, mindfully with concentration", probably not really that much difference... ;)

Another thing with respect to sankhara from the standpoint of the khandhas, which should be put into consideration:
MN109 wrote:Whatever fabrications are past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: those are called the aggregate of fabrication. (...) This is the extent to which the term 'aggregate' applies to the aggregates."
particularly noteworthy is "internal or external", the pali passage is
MN109 wrote:ye keci saṅkhārā atītānāgatapaccuppannā ajjhattaṃ vā bahiddhā vā, oḷārikā vā sukhumā vā, hīnā vā paṇītā vā, ye dūre santike vā ayaṃ saṅkhārakkhandho.

"ajjhattaṃ vā bahiddhā", the pali-dictionary I use says:
ajjhattaṃ: inwardly. (adv.), Relating to the individual, within the individual, internally, subjectively
bahiddhā: outside; outer. (ind.)
A german translation uses the term "eigen oder fremd" (own or foreign). What I'm trying to say is that the aggregate of fabrication doesn't only consist of "my fabrications" but of "your fabrications", too. Same thing applies for the four other aggregates.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:45 am

tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,

tiltbillings wrote:I have yet to figure out how hardness, and so on or a rock can be an emotion/feeling.


We could throw rocks at your head and find out. ;)

Metta,
Retro.

No. That some using a rock to cause pain which may lead to dukkha for me.

By the way, it looks like I am the only one here who has directly addressed your question: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Hi, Tilt,
I'm following the thread with interest but held back from addressing the question, or even joining in at all, until now.
Like you, I 'have yet to figure out how hardness, and so on or a rock can be an emotion/feeling.' That makes it kinda hard to even begin answering the question. :smile:
At the moment I'm waiting for a decent chance to study Retro's translation key early in the thread, to see if I can make the statement make sense through some grammatical quirk of the Pali; none of the English versions make sense to me as they stand.
I also need (and intend) to get back to the 'Work=Dukkha' thread asap - maybe tomorrow.
:namaste:
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:33 pm

Until now we have a definition for "all" (sabbe), a longer definition for "formation" (sankhara) and a shorter one.
How about giving a definition for "suffering" (dukkha).
I provide this one:
dukkha
(1) 'pain', painful feeling, which may be bodily and mental (s. vedanā).

(2) 'Suffering', 'ill'. As the first of the Four Noble Truths (s. sacca) and the second of the three characteristics of existence (s. ti-lakkhana), the term dukkha is not limited to painful experience as under (1), but refers to the unsatisfactory nature and the general insecurity of all conditioned phenomena which, on account of their impermanence, are all liable to suffering, and this includes also pleasurable experience. Hence 'unsatisfactoriness' or 'liability to suffering' would be more adequate renderings, if not for stylistic reasons. Hence the first truth does not deny the existence of pleasurable experience, as is sometimes wrongly assumed. This is illustrated by the following texts:

"Seeking satisfaction in the world, monks, I had pursued my way. That satisfaction in the world I found. In so far as satisfaction existed in the world, I have well perceived it by wisdom. Seeking for misery in the world, monks, I had pursued my way. That misery in the world I found. In so far as misery existed in the world, I have well perceived it by wisdom. Seeking for the escape from the world, monks, I had pursued my way. That escape from the world I found. In so far as an escape from the world existed, I have well perceived it by wisdom" (A. 111, 101).

"If there were no satisfaction to be found in the world, beings would not be attached to the world .... If there were no misery to be found in the world, beings would not be repelled by the world .... If there were no escape from the world, beings could not escape therefrom" (A. 111, 102).

and of course:
DN22 wrote:Now what is the noble truth of stress? Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are stressful; association with the unbeloved is stressful; separation from the loved is stressful; not getting what one wants is stressful. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are stressful.

I write this because of
tiltbillings wrote:I have yet to figure out how hardness, and so on or a rock can be an emotion/feeling.

There is no need to figure out how hardness and so on or a rock can be an emoition/feeling, because these things aren't feelings or emotions. A thing necessarily don't have to be an emotion/feeling in order to be dukkha. Birth isn't an emotion/feeling either but it is dukkha.

These two shorter notes on sankhara and Dhamma by Ven. Ñanavira Thera may also be of interest to someone.
best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby Virgo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:54 pm

acinteyyo wrote:
Virgo wrote:'Rocks' are not dukkha. But the components that make up the concept 'rock' are all dukkha. Such as color, hardness, and so on.

Kevin

Just for clarification, do you think there is a "rock" independent from the components which make up the concept? Because when the components which make up the concept "rock" are all dukkha, how can it be that the concept is not dukkha? I mean, when everything which constitutes a thing is dukkha, how can the thing constituted by its conditions be not dukkha?
That would be like if someone's building up a house from wood and when it's finished, so that it actually becomes a house, it suddenly consists of stone.

best wishes, acinteyyo

Normally, we don't make distinctions between paramattha dhammas and concepts because wisdom has not developed to the degree of reaching the stages of insight. Someone who has reached the first stage of insight can begin to distinguish nama from rupa, different types of ultimate realities and can see they are different from concepts. Concepts are more like imaginations, imputations, if you will, upon realities like hardness and softness. They naturally form and can be influence realities by way of proximate cause condition and so on, however they are individual "dreamings up" of things and not ultimately real things like hardness and softness. Realities have characteristics by nature. Concepts don't have any characteristics. Take the concept of "the world". Yours and my concept are different, very different. They are "shadows" of realities according to the Dispeller of Delusion.

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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby Virgo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:53 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Virgo,

Virgo wrote:'Rocks' are not dukkha. But the components that make up the concept 'rock' are all dukkha. Such as color, hardness, and so on.


Would you consider "color, hardness, and so on" to be dukkha even if there was no sentience in the universe capable of making contact with these qualities?

Metta,
Retro. :)

Hi Retro. Yes. I think all paramattha dhammas - save one - have these characteristics no matter there is a mind present to perceive them or not. The reason is that a purified mind (with panna) sees these characterstics about dhammas and that is the cause for the unwholesome tendencies such as self-view, hatred, and aversion, and so on to be removed. Panna will never see these paramatha dhammas as happy. That is why, even if there is no one present to observe these dhammas, they are still said to be that way. Why? Because as soon as conditions arise for a mind with panna to see any one of these dhammas, the "dukhaness" will be apparent to it. So "dukkha" was taught to be an inherent characteristic of all conditioned dhammas by Buddha when he taught the Abhidhamma.
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:06 pm

acinteyyo wrote:(2) 'Suffering', 'ill'. As the first of the Four Noble Truths (s. sacca) and the second of the three characteristics of existence (s. ti-lakkhana), the term dukkha is not limited to painful experience as under (1), but refers to the unsatisfactory nature and the general insecurity of all conditioned phenomena which, on account of their impermanence, are all liable to suffering, and this includes also pleasurable experience. Hence 'unsatisfactoriness' or 'liability to suffering' would be more adequate renderings, if not for stylistic reasons. Hence the first truth does not deny the existence of pleasurable experience, as is sometimes wrongly assumed.
All conditioned experiences are unsatisfactory to hold onto given that they change. The dukkha is not in the experience itself; rather, dukkha is in the holding onto what changes, wanting it to be otherwise. Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are stressful; association with the unbeloved is stressful; separation from the loved is stressful; not getting what one wants is stressful. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are stressful. All this is a description of the experience change and the experience of things as "I" do not want them to be.

"Seeking satisfaction in the world, monks, I had pursued my way. That satisfaction in the world I found. In so far as satisfaction existed in the world, I have well perceived it by wisdom. Seeking for misery in the world, monks, I had pursued my way. That misery in the world I found. In so far as misery existed in the world, I have well perceived it by wisdom. Seeking for the escape from the world, monks, I had pursued my way. That escape from the world I found. In so far as an escape from the world existed, I have well perceived it by wisdom" (A. 111, 101).
And the world is found where?

tiltbillings wrote:I have yet to figure out how hardness, and so on or a rock can be an emotion/feeling.

There is no need to figure out how hardness and so on or a rock can be an emoition/feeling, because these things aren't feelings or emotions. A thing necessarily don't have to be an emotion/feeling in order to be dukkha. Birth isn't an emotion/feeling either but it is dukkha.
Birth is a personal experience that inflicts pain.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:52 pm

tiltbillings wrote:And the world is found where?
Maybe there... SN 35.82: Loka Sutta :shrug:
tiltbillings wrote:I have yet to figure out how hardness, and so on or a rock can be an emotion/feeling.
Why do you have to figure it out?
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Virgo wrote:
acinteyyo wrote:
Virgo wrote:'Rocks' are not dukkha. But the components that make up the concept 'rock' are all dukkha. Such as color, hardness, and so on.
Kevin
Just for clarification, do you think there is a "rock" independent from the components which make up the concept? Because when the components which make up the concept "rock" are all dukkha, how can it be that the concept is not dukkha? I mean, when everything which constitutes a thing is dukkha, how can the thing constituted by its conditions be not dukkha?
That would be like if someone's building up a house from wood and when it's finished, so that it actually becomes a house, it suddenly consists of stone.
best wishes, acinteyyo
Normally, we don't make distinctions between paramattha dhammas and concepts because wisdom has not developed to the degree of reaching the stages of insight. Someone who has reached the first stage of insight can begin to distinguish nama from rupa, different types of ultimate realities and can see they are different from concepts. Concepts are more like imaginations, imputations, if you will, upon realities like hardness and softness. They naturally form and can be influence realities by way of proximate cause condition and so on, however they are individual "dreamings up" of things and not ultimately real things like hardness and softness. Realities have characteristics by nature. Concepts don't have any characteristics. Take the concept of "the world". Yours and my concept are different, very different. They are "shadows" of realities according to the Dispeller of Delusion.
Kevin

Hi Kevin,
if we normally don't make distinctions between paramattha dhammas and concepts, why do you say the concept "rock" isn't dukkha while the paramattha dhammas, which make up the concept, are dukkha?

Why do you make a distinction though?

I mean since the ultimately real things are in fact dukkha, shouldn't then an imagination, an individual "dreaming up" be dukkha a fortiori or do you want to say that a concept doesn't even have the characteristic of being dukkha?

Is a concept impermanent and not-self?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

:anjali:
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:51 pm

acinteyyo wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:And the world is found where?
Maybe there... SN 35.82: Loka Sutta
Yes and this Loka Sutta and AN IN, 45: "And I further proclaim, friend, that it is this fathom-long body with its perceptions and thoughts that there is the world, the origin of the world, the cessation of the world, and the path leading to the cessation of the world." And for good measure we can throw in the Fire Sermon.
tiltbillings wrote:I have yet to figure out how hardness, and so on or a rock can be an emotion/feeling.
Why do you have to figure it out?
It is a rhetorical statement.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:57 pm

Virgo wrote: Take the concept of "the world". Yours and my concept are different, very different. They are "shadows" of realities according to the Dispeller of Delusion.
If you are to reference such a text in a discussion such as this, you really need to quote the relevant passage, in the least as a matter of courtesy.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby Virgo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:17 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote: Take the concept of "the world". Yours and my concept are different, very different. They are "shadows" of realities according to the Dispeller of Delusion.
If you are to reference such a text in a discussion such as this, you really need to quote the relevant passage, in the least as a matter of courtesy.

This is a conversation. I am not writing a persuasive essay about the topic, nor is this the world of academia. I shouldn't have to give quotes and citations for every little that thing I say. In discussion people say things in passing. I frankly don't have the time to leaf through books to see where the quote came from just to give a short reference. That could take a lot of time. If a person really wanted to know and asked, "hey, can you give a reference for that?", then that is another thing. I would have no problem getting a reference for them, even if it took a great deal of time. But that is not the case here. This isn't academia Tilt. I shouldn't have to give a reference for every little thing I say, so I have to disagree with you.

I hope you understand.

Kevin

Edit: I looked any way for you Tilt. I am sorry. The quote came from the Abhidhamma Sangaha, not the Dispeller of Delusion. I don't have a copy of it in front of me, but in her Abhidhamma Series 4, my friend Nina Van Gorkom states:

"The “Abhidhammattha Sangaha��? a compendium of the Abhidhamma composed
in India at a later time, states that concepts are only shadows of
realities. When we watch T.V., we see projected images of people and
we know that through the eyesense only visible object is seen, no
people. Also when we look at the persons we meet, only colour is
experienced through the eyesense. In the ultimate sense there are no
people. Although they seem very real they are only shadows of what is
really there. The truth is different from what we always assumed.
What we take for a person are only nåmas and rúpas that arise and
fall away. So long as we have not realized the momentary arising and
falling away of nåma and rúpa we continue to believe in a lasting self."

She is an authority on Abhidhamma. So that should be sufficient.

Kevin
Last edited by Virgo on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:25 pm

Virgo wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote: Take the concept of "the world". Yours and my concept are different, very different. They are "shadows" of realities according to the Dispeller of Delusion.
If you are to reference such a text in a discussion such as this, you really need to quote the relevant passage, in the least as a matter of courtesy.

This is a conversation.
And if you are going to reference a text which few people here have access to you could - as a matter of courtesy - in the very least quote the text or in the very, very least give the appropriate citations. That is asking very little, even for a "conversation."
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:33 pm

Virgo wrote:Edit: I looked any way for you Tilt. I am sorry. The quote came from the Abhidhamma Sangaha, not the Dispeller of Delusion. I don't have a copy of it in front of me, but in her Abhidhamma Series 4, my friend Nina Van Gorkom states:

"The “Abhidhammattha Sangaha��? a compendium of the Abhidhamma composed
in India at a later time, states that concepts are only shadows of
realities. When we watch T.V., we see projected images of people and
we know that through the eyesense only visible object is seen, no
people. Also when we look at the persons we meet, only colour is
experienced through the eyesense. In the ultimate sense there are no
people. Although they seem very real they are only shadows of what is
really there. The truth is different from what we always assumed.
What we take for a person are only nåmas and rúpas that arise and
fall away. So long as we have not realized the momentary arising and
falling away of nåma and rúpa we continue to believe in a lasting self."

She is an authority on Abhidhamma. So that should be acceptable.

Kevin

Assuming that this is an accurate reflection of the Abhidhamma teachings, I did not know that the Abhidhamma was a type of Platonism. Interesting.

And you make my point about needing to accurately quote and reference texts referred to.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby Virgo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:36 pm

Be well, Tilt.

Kevin F.
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Re: Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:44 pm

Virgo wrote:Be well, Tilt.

Kevin F.

Why thank you. You are the sweet one.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18384
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

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