the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor »

I was refering to regular cheese, like cheddar, or provolone. On average meat has 7gm/oz of protein, same for cheese, hard cheeses can have up to 10gm/oz, cottage cheese is very low 1.9gm/oz
Last edited by lyndon taylor on Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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Alex123
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Alex123 »

Aloka wrote:from the info on a container in my fridge ....in 100grams of low fat natural cottage cheese there's 10.7 grams of protein, one gram of saturated fat and 73 calories.
Personally for me, that is LOW amount. In meat for example the number is 20+. Cashews can have 18g and if I remember correctly pumpkin seeds 20g+.
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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor »

Nuts are about 3-4 gms/oz protein. It all depends on your serving size, how much protein you get, but high protein foods like cheese and meat, you have to eat less amount to get the same amount of protein.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
Jhana4
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Jhana4 »

lyndon taylor wrote:Nuts are about 3-4 gms/oz protein. It all depends on your serving size, how much protein you get, but high protein foods like cheese and meat, you have to eat less amount to get the same amount of protein.
Cheese, eggs and nuts aren't really high protein foods when you look at the total amount of protein you get per a usual serving.
It is certainly not the case when you look at the amount of protein you get for the amount of calories ( and fat ) you consume.

You can get much more protein, with much fewer calories and fats via legumes ( beans ). Lentils, peas, mung beans ( also called moong dahl in Asia ) and black eyed peas are very high in protein, very low is "gas", and fairly fast cooking ( 20 - 40 minutes ).

They are also much better for the planet than cheese, eggs and meat, which generate much more pollution in their production. Those foods also require more human edible food than it produces. Not cool in an overpopulated and hungry world.

You can learn more about using legumes here
http://beforewisdom.com/blog/cooking/beans-2/
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Jhana4 »

lyndon taylor wrote:Funny you should say that about chicken, I have this kind of belief that if you could eat only one kind of meat, it should be chicken, something about eating the least advanced animal in our food chain,
An adult chicken might be smarter than a 4 year old child
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/chic ... -1.1428277
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor »

As I haven't eaten any young children, I can't really compare them to chicken!!! Anyway I'm full vegetarian now, so that means no chicken, or young children......
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

Jhana4 wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:Funny you should say that about chicken, I have this kind of belief that if you could eat only one kind of meat, it should be chicken, something about eating the least advanced animal in our food chain,
An adult chicken might be smarter than a 4 year old child
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/chic ... -1.1428277
I read some of the article.....an example of why chickens are "smart" is that a mother hen who tastes unpalatable food in a bowl of a certain color will warn her children to not eat from that color of bowl even if it has good food in it. To me this seems pretty dumb....she is warning her children away from perfectly good food.....if you raise your kids this way it is unlikely they will ever pass the college entrance exams! I think that what has been proven in the article is that a 4 year old child might be smarter than an adult scientist!
chownah
SarathW
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by SarathW »

Ajhan Sumedho's experience with vegetarian diet:
===========
I found myself
aiming for the vegetarian dishes first so that I could
pass them out according to my own needs. It brought
up a really childish tendency in me. Then one day
another monk saw me doing this, so he grabbed the
vegetarian dish first and only gave me a little spoonful.
I was so angry when I saw that. I took this fermented
fish sauce, this really strong stuff and when I went past
his bowl, I splattered it all over his food! Fortunately,
we were forbidden to hit each other. This is an
absolute necessity for men — to have rules against
physical violence!
:)

Page 28

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/intui ... reness.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by DNS »

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Jhana4
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Jhana4 »

SarathW wrote:Ajhan Sumedho's experience with vegetarian diet:
===========
I found myself
aiming for the vegetarian dishes first so that I could
pass them out according to my own needs. It brought
up a really childish tendency in me. Then one day
another monk saw me doing this, so he grabbed the
vegetarian dish first and only gave me a little spoonful.
I was so angry when I saw that. I took this fermented
fish sauce, this really strong stuff and when I went past
his bowl, I splattered it all over his food! Fortunately,
we were forbidden to hit each other. This is an
absolute necessity for men — to have rules against
physical violence!
:)

Page 28

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/intui ... reness.pdf
So what is the meaning behind posting this quote? To show that people who care enough to try reduce the suffering of animals are foolish for trying and to try scare people who are starting to think like that so they will not even try for fear of being ostracized.

Good thing the historical Buddha wasn't scared of being different for a principal or we wouldn't have the good things we have now.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Alex123
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Alex123 »

Jhana4 wrote:To show that people who care enough to try reduce the suffering of animals are foolish for trying and to try scare people who are starting to think like that so they will not even try for fear of being ostracized.
Well, samsara is dukkha.

Carnivores eat other animals. Even if humans don't eat chicken, or rabbit, the fox or some other carnivore will. The big predator fish can eat smaller fish... And unlike humans, they do not have humane way of killing their prey.
dagon
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by dagon »

Jhana4 wrote:
SarathW wrote:Ajhan Sumedho's experience with vegetarian diet:
===========
I found myself
aiming for the vegetarian dishes first so that I could
pass them out according to my own needs. It brought
up a really childish tendency in me. Then one day
another monk saw me doing this, so he grabbed the
vegetarian dish first and only gave me a little spoonful.
I was so angry when I saw that. I took this fermented
fish sauce, this really strong stuff and when I went past
his bowl, I splattered it all over his food! Fortunately,
we were forbidden to hit each other. This is an
absolute necessity for men — to have rules against
physical violence!
:)

Page 28

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/intui ... reness.pdf
So what is the meaning behind posting this quote? To show that people who care enough to try reduce the suffering of animals are foolish for trying and to try scare people who are starting to think like that so they will not even try for fear of being ostracized.

Good thing the historical Buddha wasn't scared of being different for a principal or we wouldn't have the good things we have now.
Prephaps the text that follows the text you have quoted may help ..
I was trying to live up to an ideal of vegetarian purity,
and yet in the process having these really violent
feelings towards other monks. What’s this about? ItIntuitive Awareness 29
was a vindictive act to splatter all that strong chili
sauce with rotten fish in it over some monk’s food. It
was a violent act in order for me to keep a sense that
I’m a pure vegetarian. So I began to question whether
I wanted to make food into such a big deal in my life.
Was I wanting to live my life as a vegetarian or what?
Was that the main focus that I was aiming at? Just
contemplating this, I began to see the suffering I
created around my idealism. I noticed Luang Por
Chah certainly enjoyed his food and he had a joyful
presence. It wasn’t like an ascetic trip where you’re
eating nettle soup and rejecting the good bits; that’s
the other extreme.
Some of the aggressive and attached people i know are vegetarians - some of the kindest are vegetarians - i guess that it is what is going on in the mind and how the self is identified that makes the difference, not the menu choices that are made.

metta
paul
Last edited by dagon on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ben
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ben »

dagon wrote: Some of the aggressive and attached people i know are veterinarians - some of the kindest are veterinarians - i guess that it is what is going on in the mind and how the self is identified that makes the difference, not the menu choices that are made.

metta
paul
Indeed. I have seen the same thing. In my experience it is the person and not the preferred eating arrangements that are usually to blame.
kind regards,

Ben
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
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cooran
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by cooran »

Well, I don't know any veterinarians - unless you count the last one I took my dog to in order to get his injections. Why single one profession out?

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by dagon »

cooran wrote:Well, I don't know any veterinarians - unless you count the last one I took my dog to in order to get his injections. Why single one profession out?

With metta,
Chris
lol, i was not being mindful, caught out again

thanks mate
regards
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