Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:05 pm

puthujjana wrote:Why do christians have such a big desire to convert others? I can't understand it...

Because they believe you either get it right in this life or you are screwed for eternity. :toilet:
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby clw_uk » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:23 pm

Why do christians have such a big desire to convert others? I can't understand it...



Because Jesus in the bible urges his followers to do so, because if your not a christian then according to the bible your going to hell for eternity so they think they are saving you by trying to convert you

There is also a feeling among some christians that other religions are all from the devil, how much of this is from the bible or just a post-biblical idea i dont know


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“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby thornbush » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:44 pm

To be fair, not all Christians of the 3 Traditions share such calculated methods of fulfilling 'The Great Commission of Christ' and also the style of half baked evangelists such as Steve Cioccolanti. in my many encounters with more respectable ones, it is sad that this case is often the one by which Christianity is most famously portrayed for. As an ex Christian of 2 traditions and as a Buddhist now, I must agree partially with Bhikkhu Pesala but also perhaps, some people out there need to see/hear an active rebuttal, however 'inadequate' it may have been, from the Buddhist perspective.

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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby Individual » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:52 pm

puthujjana wrote:
Wu-Wei wrote:Image

:shock:



I'm really shocked :shock:

Why do christians have such a big desire to convert others? I can't understand it...

I blame God.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:01 pm

i dont remember where i came across it as it was many years ago but the idea was put forth that monotheistic religions are by their nature very insecure (i guess a polytheist really doesnt have to worry if the other guy's god is the "real" god cause he would accept that god as well) and as such feel the need to "prove" theyre the right religion through conversion.

its like i believe idea A and if i can get lots of people to also think idea A is correct then it must be...
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:48 pm

Over at Amazon.com I see that Ven. Dhammika's review has been removed. I don't know what happened or who did it. I sent an e-mail to Dhammika to ask him if he pulled it.
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby clw_uk » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:26 pm

It was probably to long
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby clw_uk » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:30 pm

I dont remember where i came across it as it was many years ago but the idea was put forth that monotheistic religions are by their nature very insecure




I agree here, monotheistic religions whole belief is centered around there being one all powerful being so they cant accept possibilties of other gods or no-gods since that would undermine everything that they hold dear (attachment to views)



:anjali:
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby nathan » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:45 am

My advice to buddhists is to tolerate any ignorance on the part of christians. It will only get much worse if you respond to it. It is just like dealing with a schoolyard bully or an internet troll. No offense intended to christians, simply advice to others to let them do their thing, they have been at this bs for a long, long time. Don't think you can get one up on them by playing their game. That would be assuming it is a game with rules.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby nathan » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:36 am

For this kind of christian behavior, education is probably completely out of the question and counterproductive effort. This is the only hope buddhists have of overcoming unwanted friction with christians in general:

The Four Sublime States Contemplations on Love, Compassion, Sympathetic Joy and Equanimity
by Nyanaponika Thera

"These four attitudes are said to be excellent or sublime because they are the right or ideal way of conduct towards living beings (sattesu samma patipatti). They provide, in fact, the answer to all situations arising from social contact. They are the great removers of tension, the great peace-makers in social conflict, and the great healers of wounds suffered in the struggle of existence. They level social barriers, build harmonious communities, awaken slumbering magnanimity long forgotten, revive joy and hope long abandoned, and promote human brotherhood against the forces of egotism.

The Brahma-viharas are incompatible with a hating state of mind, and in that they are akin to Brahma, the divine but transient ruler of the higher heavens in the traditional Buddhist picture of the universe. In contrast to many other conceptions of deities, East and West, who by their own devotees are said to show anger, wrath, jealousy and "righteous indignation," Brahma is free from hate; and one who assiduously develops these four sublime states, by conduct and meditation, is said to become an equal of Brahma (brahma-samo). If they become the dominant influence in his mind, he will be reborn in congenial worlds, the realms of Brahma. Therefore, these states of mind are called God-like, Brahma-like."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el006.html

The Practice of Loving-Kindness (Metta) As Taught by the Buddha in the Pali Canon Compiled and translated by Ñanamoli Thera
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el007.html
:smile:
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby arise » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:12 pm

Dhammika wrote a completely biased book against Christianity. But nobody said anything against him yet. Steve Cioccolanti wrote a book that shows the similarities between Buddhism and Christianity, and the monk attacks him. What a hypocrite!

Read about the response from the Author at http://www.BuddhaBook.org/bookblog
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:44 pm

arise,

Which book are you referring to by Ven. Dhammika? Is it Good Question, Good Answer referred to in Steve C.'s blog? If so, that is a book on Buddhism, whereas Steve C.'s book is specifically about Buddhism and Christianity and how they are practiced.
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby thornbush » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:33 pm

Debating Buddhist texts in ancient languages is the pursuit of academics and the elite, of which Dhammika is one.
I am interested in the millions of lay Buddhists whose faith is not perfect and often syncretic.
That is why I wrote from the beginning of my book “an insider’s view of Buddhism and Christianity,” not an academic’s or professional’s or Western view.
I never claimed to be a monk.
I am only a commoner who has been involved in the lives of thousands of Buddhists and found out how they are suffering.
I want to help end their suffering because I ended my suffering at the Cross of Jesus Christ.
http://buddhabook.org/bookblog/?p=64#more-64

Now do you all get the actual picture? Especially the one in bold?
Pays to know why and what u believe in depth huh :roll:

Namo Amitabha Buddha!
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:36 pm

arise wrote:Dhammika wrote a completely biased book against Christianity. But nobody said anything against him yet. Steve Cioccolanti wrote a book that shows the similarities between Buddhism and Christianity, and the monk attacks him. What a hypocrite!

Read about the response from the Author at http://www.BuddhaBook.org/bookblog


I am not aware that Ven Dhammika wrote a sustained critique of Christianity. He may have, so it would be incumbent upon you to provide a reference.

On the other hand Steve Cioccolanti's book, from what I have read about it is portrayed on Amazon.com, is a tool for Christians to evangelize Buddhists, and if this is true then Cioccolanti's book is not some innocent, warm fuzzy new-agey similarities effort; rather, it is part of evangelical war that Evangelical Christians are waging upon non-Christian religions.

One needs to be careful about who one calls a hypocrite.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:43 pm

Actually, it might be worth my getting the book and doing a sustained critque of it. There are better things to do with my life, however, but I'll see how this thread unfolds.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby clw_uk » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:02 pm

What I wrote concerning Buddhism is what the lay Buddhist knows: Buddha was a prince who left everything (including his former religion of Hinduism) in pursuit of the truth and a way out of karmic suffering. I greatly admire Buddha. Although Buddha did not have the privilege of knowing Christianity, I firmly believe if he were alive today, he would be open-minded enough to study the Bible and have a civil dialogue with well-informed Christians. I also admire the Buddhists who try to follow Buddha’s example. Dhammika is not like Buddha; he is a rejecter of Christ with an axe to grind; a Western academic who uses Western thinking to attack Christianity.



I agree with him that if Buddha were alive today, he would engage in a civil dialogue with christians but i dont think the Buddha would accept Jesus as a son of god and saviour


I get the sense that he is saying that if one denies Jesus as the son of god and saviour then one isnt practicing in accord with the Buddhas teachings, which of course is ridiculous

He also seems to reject the claims of Buddhism being Scientific despite his obvious Creationist beliefs which are so against Science in everyway and are utterly foolish

His knowledge of a central Buddhist teaching also seems to be incorrect

What did Buddha say was the cause of human suffering? Karma. Hence Buddha was seeking a solution that the Bible provided – a way out of sin, suffering and death. Being a rejecter of Christianity, Dhamikka would never admit that, but most native Buddhists I know have no problem seeing the similarity between Buddhism and Christianity.


Is it not craving that is the cause of dukkha, not kamma? He also seems to equate sin with Kamma despite the fact they are two different concepts/teachings. I do agree however there are some similarities between Buddhism and Christianity but i would say only on a moral level (and even then not all the time)
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:53 pm

I agree with him that if Buddha were alive today, he would engage in a civil dialogue with christians but i dont think the Buddha would accept Jesus as a son of god and saviour


The Buddha would be civil, but given the history of Christianity and how many evangelical type express themselves in the present day, it would not necessarily be reciprocated. Too bad Richard C is not here; it would be interesting to discuss some of these things with him.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:52 pm

Ven. Dhammika was in Perth the past several days giving some talks. I just heard back from him and he said that Amazon removed his review, believing it was "too" negative and may hurt book sales. So apparently it was just a business decision.

Meanwhile, the Christian minister continues to leave his attacks on Ven. Dhammika at his blog.
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Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby green » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:29 am

Frankly, ever since I've become a Buddhist, I don't mind it at all when Christians try to convert me..I don't get irritated. They seem to have good intentions and do it to "save me"... .:thinking:

There are some very nice people of faith in every religion and I've had the pleasure of talking to many of them...

Of course there are some who are ignorant, like the annoying korean Christian missionary who couldn't stand Buddha :cookoo: ... (I didn't understand why she didn't, but at that time I didn't care too much since I wasn't a Buddhist)

Now if someone really starts talking to me, I try to speak to them about the Dhamma without insulting other people's beliefs.

I have a very strong understanding of the Bible, so I've actually had some more open minded ones gain greater interest in learning the Dhamma once they see the parallels. If I can get some of them to read the Dhamma, that's cool! :smile:
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Re: updated link to Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Postby boyadine » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:03 am

Those interested in reading Bhante Dhammika's book review should try this link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13296079/Book ... a-to-Jesus

(someone at amazon.com deleted the book review, gee i wonder why)

There is also another excellent review by Bhante Aggacitto which you can read here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13099022/Revi ... ioccolanti

Please download the pdf files and forward to those who would be interested.

Although the book is vile it will be useful to stimulate discussion and deepen understandings.

with metta to all
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