Justsit wrote:So, CLW, am I understanding you correctly, you deny cyclic existence?
If so, could you please explain your understanding of Kamma?
Samsara is the spining of the mind, not a metaphysical hey im a frog now
When the Buddha talks about "worlds" and such he is refering to how we percieve the world, that is the use of the term "world" in Buddhadhamma. So if there is birth in a hell realm, one is in hell since one experiences existence in a completely negative way, this is fully in line with these suttas
It's a gain for you, monks, a great gain, that you've gained the opportunity to live the holy life. I have seen a hell named 'Contacts Sixfold Base.' Whatever form one sees there with the eye is undesirable, never desirable; displeasing, never pleasing; disagreeable, never agreeable. Whatever sound one hears there with the ear... Whatever aroma one smells there with the nose... Whatever flavor one tastes there with the tongue... Whatever tactile sensation one touches there with the body... Whatever idea one cognizes there with the intellect is undesirable, never desirable; displeasing, never pleasing; disagreeable, never agreeable.
"It's a gain for you, monks, a great gain, that you've gained the opportunity to live the holy life. I have seen a heaven named "Contacts Six Fold Base.' Whatever form one sees there with the eye is desirable, never undesirable; pleasing, never displeasing; agreeable, never disagreeable. Whatever sound one hears there with the ear... Whatever aroma one smells there with the nose... Whatever flavor one tastes there with the tongue ... Whatever tactile sensation one touches there with the body... Whatever idea one cognizes there with the intellect is desirable, never undesirable; pleasing, never displeasing; agreeable, never disagreeable.
"It's a gain for you, monks, a great gain, that you've gained the opportunity to live the holy life."
and
that in the world by which one is a perceiver of the world, a conceiver of the world - this is called the world in the noble ones discipline
"
SN - 1190 - book of the six sense media
The Buddha is using words in his own way, problem arises when you apply the everyday use of a word to Buddhas use of it. Further more the Buddha was concerned with the mind, everything he taught had to do with mental states. Samsara is the spinining of the mind, not the spining of "you" through different wombs
Look at this passage for instance
Four Kinds of Generation
32. "Sariputta, there are these four kinds of generation. What are the four? Egg-born generation, womb-born generation, moisture-born generation and spontaneous generation.
33. "What is egg-born generation? There are these beings born by breaking out of the shell of an egg; this is called egg-born generation.
What is womb-born generation? There are these beings born by breaking out from the caul; this is called womb-born generation.
What is moisture-born generation? There are these beings born in a rotten fish, in a rotten corpse, in rotten dough, in a cesspit, or in a sewer; this is called moisture-born generation.
What is spontaneous generation? There are gods and denizens of hell and certain human beings and some beings in the lower worlds; this is called spontaneous generation. These are the four kinds of generation.
Now then, humans are born from a womb and so are included in womb born generation yet they are also mentioned in the last catergory of
spontaneous generation. Now obviously this doesnt mean people just pop into existence out of no where, and since we already covered humans unnder womb born, it is refering to
the mental state of being a human, just like Buddha was refering to hell beings as
a mental state. Just like Heaven and Hell and Gods and Hungry ghosts are
mental states. Just like samsara is about the spining of the mind through ignorance, craving and clinging to impermanent dhammas which are all discussing
mental states and not physical places in a so called rebirth after death as a fish
As for Kamma, Buddha that kamma is intention, this is a radical thing for him to do at the time. Before him kamma was ritualistic duty or general a causes be causes c causes d kinda view. The Buddha removes this and makes use of the notion of Kamma that was prevaling at the time by saying no your intention will have results in the samsara of the mind, rob someone and there will be an unwholesome state, give to charity and there will be a wholesome state. Foster wholesome states for they help lead to nibbana
The problem of kamma is actually your problem since you can only see it through the lense of rebirth after death as a frog kinda way and so you see any removal of that as a problem with what Buddha was saying
that in the world by which one is a perceiver of the world, a conceiver of the world, this is called the world in the noble ones discipline
Not external physical world somewhere but the inner mental world, thats how Buddha uses the term. He makes the word his own
I have seen a hell named 'Contacts Sixfold Base.' Whatever form one sees there with the eye is undesirable, never desirable; displeasing, never pleasing; disagreeable, never agreeable
Hell is a
mental state of being, which is what Buddha is saying above and not some place after death
tbh ive never known why hell can only seem real if its in some metaphycial etheral realm somewhere when it can be experienced directly here
metta
