the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Spiny Norman
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:56 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

visitin
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby visitin » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:52 pm


chownah
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby chownah » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:07 pm


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Mkoll
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Mkoll » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:27 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

Nikaya35
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Nikaya35 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:29 am

There is 2 points that can be discussed in the rebirth topic. 1) are karma and rebirth part of the Buddha teachings according to the sutras? 2) do you believe in rebirth ? Or its rebirth true or not ? The answer of the first question is a very easy one. Both doctrines of karma and rebirth are part of the Buddha teachings according to the nikayas and the goal of classical buddhism is to stop the circle of literal rebirths ( samsara ). Do you believe in rebirth ? I would say yes. There isn't any empirical evidence of karma and rebirth being true. So why I believe in this? Because I have faith in the Buddha. One can't be a buddhist without any faith or confidence in the Buddha message. I don't know by direct experience the truth of karma and rebirth. The practice of buddhism like any religion is a gamble. We can't know for sure if death is the end . Atleast most of us can't. It's really ridiculous to argue using the nikayas that the Buddha doesn't teach karma and rebirth in a literal sense. The same rebirth debate is in another buddhist site . It's fine to be skeptical of karma and rebirth . It's bullshit to argue to death that both doctrines aren't part of the Buddha teachings.

chownah
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby chownah » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:48 am

"Then, householder, you should train yourself in this way: 'I won't cling to this world; my consciousness will not be dependent on this world... I won't cling to the world beyond; my consciousness will not be dependent on the world beyond.' That's how you should train yourself."
From MN143


chownah

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:56 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:25 pm

:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, may be why....

david.sojourn
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby david.sojourn » Tue May 06, 2014 7:53 pm

If you are debating, you are not practicing anything but running the mind and the mouth.

Nobody who debates rebirth will ever get closer to understanding it.

It must be understood through Stream Entry.

The modern world wants to Analyze everything. Intellectually "Figure it out".

It will never work.

You will debate and debate, and just when you're close, plop, someone will have a new argument. Some people will leave the debate stuck to their own notions (Conventions, attachment to ego), and others will only get more and more confused.

My advice is to practice. You won't find anything in this thread except more manure to clutter your mind.

Rebirth cannot be analytically grasped. You must work toward enlightenment before that kind of information is revealed to you. When you get it, you will get it. And when you don't get it, you will just argue, paradoxically, forever and ever, and ever--Yet not be a single mindful step any closer to your goal.

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Mkoll
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Mkoll » Tue May 06, 2014 8:03 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Aloka
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Aloka » Thu May 15, 2014 5:35 pm


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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sun May 18, 2014 3:45 am

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun May 18, 2014 8:11 am

Thank you for that. I always knew I had my uses....

:jumping:

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, may be why....

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sun May 18, 2014 10:43 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

callmetheseeker
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Rebirth? Really?

Postby callmetheseeker » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:22 am

I've been a Buddhist for nearly 6 years and the idea of rebirth seemed perfectly normal to me, even before coming into contact with Buddhism. Lately I've become confused, though. Probably because I don't meditate so much, or at all. I feel that death seems like falling into nothingness. Even if there is rebirth, we can't experience like in the movie Groundhog Day. Why can't we be like: 'Okay, I screwed up my last life, I shouldn't have done this, I should've done that. This life I'll try to do better'?? Wouldn't it be easier? I mean, of course it wouldn't be necessary for us to remember everything from the last life, just a continuation of consciouness would be nice. 'I've died now, wonder how my new life is gonna be....' Then after a bit of early infancy thin memory, it could be... 'Oh, cool. Now I'm French and have two siblings. My parents seem nice.' Does anyone follow me? Why can't it be like Groundhog Day? Things would be kind of awesome. Or maybe not? If that was the case, we could become messed up from so much memories, so much lives... I don't know, I just don't want to fall into the nothing.

LXNDR
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Re: Rebirth? Really?

Postby LXNDR » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:32 am

i guess this way nobody would have developed wisdom, you would just learn the correct responses to a limited array of challenges, which means in different circumstances your skills would be useless

when life ever changes there's a possibility and even necessity to develop universal and unconditioned wisdom, so you can respond adequately to any stimulus, basically you learn a principle and not a set of correct responses

your interaction with reality must be creative and not automatic

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manas
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Re: Rebirth? Really?

Postby manas » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:10 am

Hi cmts,

personally I think it's better that we do get a fresh start each time, and don't recall our previous life. Even just recalling all the pain and distress of this current life is hard enough, without having to also remember the last life as well.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Mkoll
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Re: Rebirth? Really?

Postby Mkoll » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:45 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Rebirth? Really?

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:56 am

:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, may be why....

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Rebirth? Really?

Postby lyndon taylor » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:50 am

actually reincarnation and rebirth are simply two different translations of the same pali word, the reason therevada translators use rebirth is to distinguish it from the hindu concept of reincarnation, which they oppose.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/


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