Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven.Dhammika and other scandals
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:58 am
Well said, Dan.
With metta,
Chris
With metta,
Chris
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You don't see the good intentions of others, friend.binocular wrote:I don't consider myself a Buddhist. I am still trying to decide whether to take up this path or not.
When I look at who gets out on top in conflicts: yes, it is indeed the ill-willed Buddhists. This is the kind of role-modeling that takes place among Buddhists. Not always, but certainly often enough to give me the impression that the Buddhist sangha is yet another installment of the gladiator arena that life generally is.
'Gets out on top' means something different for me, I think. How do you define "success", in other words? Reference to social standing and access to social power aren't a part of how I see it.binocular wrote:When I look at who gets out on top in conflicts: yes, it is indeed the ill-willed Buddhists.
Sadhu!BlackBird wrote:
Imo nobody wins in conflicts. Everybody wins with harmony though.
Life is imperfect. Strong survive, weak die out. In business, sharks seem to get ahead. Would be strange if it were different. Unfortunately as "Broken Buddha" has shown, Catholic church isn't the only one with problems. People are imperfect and can ruin a perfect sangha.binocular wrote:And these same Buddhists are in some position of power, such as moderators here. Per default, these people win, get ahead, come out on top.
...When I look at who gets out on top in conflicts: yes, it is indeed the ill-willed Buddhists. This is the kind of role-modeling that takes place among Buddhists. Not always, but certainly often enough to give me the impression that the Buddhist sangha is yet another installment of the gladiator arena that life generally is.
No. In business it is the sharks that win. Good will is sign of weakness that sharks exploit to their benefit. You try to be nice and give them their fair share only to result that they grab it, and demand "give me more!!!" and then treat you like a rug to walk on, and after all of this they treat you like "it is your fault!". People pretend to be best friends, and then at the first opportunity stab one in the back and try to fleece you as much as possible. Why?BlackBird wrote:Imo nobody wins in conflicts. Everybody wins with harmony though.
The perfect Sangha is a conceptual Sangha. Even in the Buddha's day the monastic order had it's rogues, it is said. Looking for perfection in the world of convention is suffering.Alex123 wrote:Life is imperfect. Strong survive, weak die out. In business, sharks seem to get ahead. Would be strange if it were different. Unfortunately as "Broken Buddha" has shown, Catholic church isn't the only one with problems. People are imperfect and can ruin a perfect sangha.binocular wrote:And these same Buddhists are in some position of power, such as moderators here. Per default, these people win, get ahead, come out on top.
...When I look at who gets out on top in conflicts: yes, it is indeed the ill-willed Buddhists. This is the kind of role-modeling that takes place among Buddhists. Not always, but certainly often enough to give me the impression that the Buddhist sangha is yet another installment of the gladiator arena that life generally is.
Everyone is equal, except that some people are more equal than others, eh?BlackBird wrote:Imo nobody wins in conflicts. Everybody wins with harmony though.
There you go. Imputing on me - again - that I tried to excuse the events there.Dan74 wrote:I don't recall much ill-will, if any, but this just underscores how different people's perception are. What I do recall is you trying to excuse the events by arguing that the Muslims in Burma were a threat.
Talk about ill will.They may well have been perceived to be a threat, but I am yet to see any evidence that they were. Whenever such events happen, whether in Yugoslavia, Rwanda or indeed to the Jews in Europe, the minority is perceived to be a threat, but that doesn't excuse it. In any case broadbrushing the people and killing innocents is murder plain and simple, nothing there that can be whitewashed or excused, though of course it is understandably human.
So to be frank, I think you got off lightly. What you were putting forward in that thread I found completely off the mark and inappropriate.
thank you for sharing your awareness.binocular wrote:This really hurts, you know. I would think that someone who has been practicing Buddhism for so long would actually pay attention to what people say. Instead, it's like highschool all over again. It would be funny if it wouldn't be so sad.
So, to say something like this does not really help. Better to say nothing if one does not know better than by close in "winning". One should close in "acknowledging", and saying sorry maybe if one does not understand. So things get lighter.Dan74 wrote:So to be frank, I think you got off lightly. What you were putting forward in that thread I found completely off the mark and inappropriate.
I fail to see the relation between Animal farm and what I've said, perhaps you could elaborate for mebinocular wrote:Everyone is equal, except that some people are more equal than others, eh?BlackBird wrote:Imo nobody wins in conflicts. Everybody wins with harmony though.
BlackBird wrote:I fail to see the relation between Animal farm and what I've said, perhaps you could elaborate for mebinocular wrote:Everyone is equal, except that some people are more equal than others, eh?BlackBird wrote:Imo nobody wins in conflicts. Everybody wins with harmony though.
If you're suggesting I hold a view similar to the pigs, you couldn't be more wrong.
Well, please go over that thread and see what you wrote. I just jumped back and saw this:binocular wrote:There you go. Imputing on me - again - that I tried to excuse the events there.Dan74 wrote:I don't recall much ill-will, if any, but this just underscores how different people's perception are. What I do recall is you trying to excuse the events by arguing that the Muslims in Burma were a threat.
Talk about ill will.
binocular wrote:If someone were to come to cause you and your loved ones harm, what would you do?
Would you just stand there and let them do it?
Is it unfair to describe these words as "trying to excuse the events by arguing that the Muslims in Burma were a threat"?binocular wrote:But what should those monks do?
Sit there and watch as people are being harmed? Spread thoughts of goodwill to everyone?
They say truth hurts and perkele below implies that I was being unskillful and this would not help. He/she may well be right, I don't know. At this stage it seems to me that you are not interested in the truth but in people agreeing with you, validating you, praising you and your views, etc. This does not lead to an honest exchange where equals are free to disagree and participants are mature enough to take different perspectives on board. Let me ask you - are you open to different views?binocular wrote:Talk about ill will.They may well have been perceived to be a threat, but I am yet to see any evidence that they were. Whenever such events happen, whether in Yugoslavia, Rwanda or indeed to the Jews in Europe, the minority is perceived to be a threat, but that doesn't excuse it. In any case broadbrushing the people and killing innocents is murder plain and simple, nothing there that can be whitewashed or excused, though of course it is understandably human.
So to be frank, I think you got off lightly. What you were putting forward in that thread I found completely off the mark and inappropriate.
What I've been saying all along. Make stuff up, accuse a person of something they didn't do, and then proceed in righteous condemnation of them.
Thank you. So Buddhist.
Hurting was certainly not my intent, but some say that we best learn through pain. As for being a good Buddhist etc I have only practiced for 10 years and I still screw up quite a lot. In fact I am almost sure that this whole exchange will benefit no one, but on the off chance I am sitting here in the middle of a busy Saturday, between fixing the shed and cooking lunch for my family, in order to write to you, a stranger I've never met and probably never will. Does this also sound like ill-will to you?binocular wrote:This really hurts, you know. I would think that someone who has been practicing Buddhism for so long would actually pay attention to what people say. Instead, it's like highschool all over again. It would be funny if it wouldn't be so sad.