"The Broken Buddha" by Ven.Dhammika and other scandals

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby BlackBird » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:26 am

binocular wrote:
BlackBird wrote:You still haven't answered the questions.

Because they are irrelevant, only distract from the point.


binocular wrote:Besides, I did address them when I said I've been around enough and long enough etc.


This is interesting, because these two statements contradict one another, which one is your choice?
If you chose 1. Because they are irrelevant my answer is: No. Not at all, it's infinitely relevant because it shows you are nothing more than an arm chair critic passing judgement upon people who's experiences you have never come close to sharing.

If you chose 2. Then: No that was merely a sidestep and a poor attempt to reframe the issue around your original criticism. It is an unqualified statement that gives no evidence that you've done anything remotely like what would be in most people's eyes a justification for making such criticisms.

We're finished here, I've repeatedly asked you whether you've ever stayed in a monastery before and I have asked you whether you've ever travelled for the Dhamma and you have repeatedly avoided the question, a question you would have no problem answering if the answer was affirmative. But it's clearly not.

Given that: Your opinion is quite unqualified, and I can quite happily disregard just about everything you've said :)

Have a good day
Jack
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'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Nirosh » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:41 am

gavesako wrote:There is a history to this book. I don't know the details but I heard from some monks in Sri Lanka that the author later asked for forgiveness and obviously regretted expressing such negatively biased views in the book. One could probably find fault with any established tradition along similar lines.


Correction to Bhante Gavesako: There were two emails in 2011. First email was sent in January 2011 (read "Nude Monk's" 111th page). Second email that is "Nude monk's" was sent in May 2011. First email was sent by dhammafriend2010@gmail.com, and the abbot Ven. Ariyananda of Na-Uyana Monastery managed to hack into this email account. Evidently author (an Indian monk) was exposed and forced to ask for forgiveness, but as I heard from Sri Lankan monks, the author wasn't regretted for writing, but for using an easy answer for the secret question of the email. The author of the second email is still unknown, but a lot of monks were suspected. As I heard another "fault finding" book can be written about the way Ven. Ariyananda harassed the monks after the second email.

gavesako wrote:such negatively biased views in the book.


Seems like you are also negatively biased against the authors without knowing they are true or not

gavesako wrote:One could probably find fault with any established tradition along similar lines.


Faults are there, that's why people find them. Correct the faults.
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Rob1980 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:16 am

Hey Nirosh

Thanks for the information. You seem to know far more than most people on this thread about the book.

Do you know whether things have changed at Na Uyana so that is good place to ordain now?

Do you know if any of the book contains any truth, if so, which parts?

Thanks

With metta

Rob
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby gavesako » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:54 am

Nirosh wrote:
gavesako wrote:There is a history to this book. I don't know the details but I heard from some monks in Sri Lanka that the author later asked for forgiveness and obviously regretted expressing such negatively biased views in the book. One could probably find fault with any established tradition along similar lines.


Correction to Bhante Gavesako: There were two emails in 2011. First email was sent in January 2011 (read "Nude Monk's" 111th page). Second email that is "Nude monk's" was sent in May 2011. First email was sent by dhammafriend2010@gmail.com, and the abbot Ven. Ariyananda of Na-Uyana Monastery managed to hack into this email account. Evidently author (an Indian monk) was exposed and forced to ask for forgiveness, but as I heard from Sri Lankan monks, the author wasn't regretted for writing, but for using an easy answer for the secret question of the email. The author of the second email is still unknown, but a lot of monks were suspected. As I heard another "fault finding" book can be written about the way Ven. Ariyananda harassed the monks after the second email.

gavesako wrote:such negatively biased views in the book.


Seems like you are also negatively biased against the authors without knowing they are true or not

gavesako wrote:One could probably find fault with any established tradition along similar lines.


Faults are there, that's why people find them. Correct the faults.



Actually I don't know much this case at all and have never been to Na Uyana myself. But I have met a number of Western monks who have lived there in the past. Every place such as this one will have its positive and negative sides, of course. If it was that bad, those experienced Western monks probably would not go back to stay there and would have told me why.

What I do know from the Sangha life, however, is that one's experience of a particular place or teacher at any one time does depend a lot on one's mental state: two monks inhabiting the same monastery at the same time might give quite a different report about "what it was like" -- depending on what their perspective was. Mountains can be made out of molehills, for example.
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby binocular » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:03 am

gavesako wrote:What I do know from the Sangha life, however, is that one's experience of a particular place or teacher at any one time does depend a lot on one's mental state: two monks inhabiting the same monastery at the same time might give quite a different report about "what it was like" -- depending on what their perspective was.

Exactly. Which is why I think it is best to check things out for oneself, as opposed to going only by hearsay.


Mountains can be made out of molehills, for example.

Or molehills out of mountains ...
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Nirosh » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:42 pm

Rob1980 wrote:Hey Nirosh

Thanks for the information. You seem to know far more than most people on this thread about the book.


Yes, I do know. I am a Sri Lankan, and was a monk with more than 10 rains in Galduwa tradition. Before Galduwa I was in another tradition. I stayed in Na-Uyana Monastery for a long time, and in many other monasteries. In my first years as a monk I saw a lot of corruption and deception from elder monks, and to a certain extent tried to correct them too. Later, I realized it’s useless and harmful to my self too, so I moved my self away from elders. However having saw how several very serious issues were swept under the carpet out of utter greed for power which could affect the tradition, I moved to Australia. However, I must say that there are very good monks in Sri Lanka, with whom I still keep contact.

Rob1980 wrote:Do you know whether things have changed at Na Uyana so that is good place to ordain now?


In Sinhalese we say “even the tiger changed the forest, his spots will not.” I think you have my answer. The biggest problem in Na-Uyana is its abbot.

Rob1980 wrote:Do you know if any of the book contains any truth, if so, which parts?


Actually you should rephrase your question to “are there any other serious incidents which not mentioned in the book.” If we talk about parajika incidents, which is very serious for the Sangha, they are true. I can guarantee that having lost a fellow monk after being poisoned by Ven. Ariyananda. This monk went public speaking against Ven. Ariyananda’s misdeeds.
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Nirosh » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:47 pm

gavesako wrote:Actually I don't know much this case at all and have never been to Na Uyana myself. But I have met a number of Western monks who have lived there in the past. Every place such as this one will have its positive and negative sides, of course. If it was that bad, those experienced Western monks probably would not go back to stay there and would have told me why.


I will answer you with one good example, which mentioned in the Nude Monk’s page number 96. When this incident (Ven. Ariyananda beating a senior monk) happened two western senior monks were in close range. One was moving away from the incident unnoticed, while the other unfortunately saw it. So for the first monk that day is a normal day, but for the second it was hell, and he left Na Uyana. However, after about a year the second monk returned being unable to find the “Na-Uyana food” in other places. Later the first monk came to know the incident and left Na-Uyana, he never returned.

So you can’t say a place is good simply because some monks return.

gavesako wrote:What I do know from the Sangha life, however, is that one's experience of a particular place or teacher at any one time does depend a lot on one's mental state: two monks inhabiting the same monastery at the same time might give quite a different report about "what it was like" -- depending on what their perspective was. Mountains can be made out of molehills, for example.


Mountains out of molehills, and molehills out of mountains, both are extremes. If you have yatha-bhuta you will see a mountain as a mountain, and a molehill as a molehill. Rather than filling the blog with your own vipallasas why not develop something like divine eye or mind reading. Then you can know directly what is true and what is not, actually you will see more than the "Nude Monk’s."
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Rob1980 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:35 pm

Thank you for sharing that information with us Nirosh. Can I take it then that you disrobed? Are you able to reveal your Pali name when you were a Bhikkhu? You mentioned you were in a previous tradition before, did they have the same problems there too?

What years were you at Na Uyana? Where you there when the book was made public and did they ever manage to find the author of the book?

You mention good monks in Sri Lanka, and I have met some very good and inspiring monks in Sri Lanka too, where would you suggest people who are interested in ordaining to go to in Sri Lanka? Who are good monks to associate with in Sri Lanka?

Perhaps for western layman who interested in meditation, Na Uyana is a good place? As they are not aware of all these underlining problems within the Sangha? Na Uyana, from what I remember, is a huge place, 5000 acres; and there is good facilities there to practice alone in one's kuti?

Thank you for helping clarify things for me.

With metta

Rob
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Dan74 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:12 am

Nirosh wrote:
gavesako wrote:Actually I don't know much this case at all and have never been to Na Uyana myself. But I have met a number of Western monks who have lived there in the past. Every place such as this one will have its positive and negative sides, of course. If it was that bad, those experienced Western monks probably would not go back to stay there and would have told me why.


I will answer you with one good example, which mentioned in the Nude Monk’s page number 96. When this incident (Ven. Ariyananda beating a senior monk) happened two western senior monks were in close range. One was moving away from the incident unnoticed, while the other unfortunately saw it. So for the first monk that day is a normal day, but for the second it was hell, and he left Na Uyana. However, after about a year the second monk returned being unable to find the “Na-Uyana food” in other places. Later the first monk came to know the incident and left Na-Uyana, he never returned.

So you can’t say a place is good simply because some monks return.

gavesako wrote:What I do know from the Sangha life, however, is that one's experience of a particular place or teacher at any one time does depend a lot on one's mental state: two monks inhabiting the same monastery at the same time might give quite a different report about "what it was like" -- depending on what their perspective was. Mountains can be made out of molehills, for example.


Mountains out of molehills, and molehills out of mountains, both are extremes. If you have yatha-bhuta you will see a mountain as a mountain, and a molehill as a molehill. Rather than filling the blog with your own vipallasas why not develop something like divine eye or mind reading. Then you can know directly what is true and what is not, actually you will see more than the "Nude Monk’s."


Unfortunately you have undermined everything you said above, friend, with this unfair sweep at Ven Gavesako.
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Nirosh » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:14 am

Rob1980 wrote:Thank you for sharing that information with us Nirosh. Can I take it then that you disrobed? Are you able to reveal your Pali name when you were a Bhikkhu? You mentioned you were in a previous tradition before, did they have the same problems there too?


Yes, I disrobed after being given and ingesting a considerable amount of sleeping tablets without my knowledge. This happened to me when I was in Na-Uyana. Who likes to put their lives at risk. Sorry Rob, I will not show my Pali name, if you ask from Sri Lankan monks by my Pali name, they may say he is a very good monk. No, not the same problems, at Kanduboda, their severe problems are more related to lust (unsuitable behaviors with women, young monks, and boys), and these issues mainly harm those who engaged in them. Other than that there were issues related to money and food, which is common to any tradition. In Na-Uyana, issues related to women are few, but lot of homosexuality exists, food and money related issues also exist, but the dangerous thing is those issues related to hatred, such as beating, poisoning, killing. Such hatred and control freak mentality can harm many.

Rob1980 wrote:did they ever manage to find the author of the book?


The author of the second email is still unknown, but Ven. Ariyananda tried to hang it on the neck of many monks during this two-year period. Ven. Ariyananda created a lot of new problems by his immature and adhamma way of reaction to the book, which made many good monks to leave Na-Uyana and even some to disrobe.

Rob1980 wrote:You mention good monks in Sri Lanka, and I have met some very good and inspiring monks in Sri Lanka too, where would you suggest people who are interested in ordaining to go to in Sri Lanka? Who are good monks to associate with in Sri Lanka?


That means you stayed in Sri Lanka. Were you ordained? Have you ever been to Na-Uayana?

It’s better to divide the foreigners who wish to ordain in Sri Lanka in to two groups. First, those who seek some religious experience, regardless of being long or short-term. Second, those who wish for a life time commitment with a serious spiritual goals like Nibbana.

For the first type, there are many places according to there preferences, but better to keep in mind that some monasteries don’t allow their students to go to other teachers. This prohibition is not aligned with the Teachings as if unsatisfied a student can go to another teacher whom he finds more qualified.and beneficial for his spiritual development. There is another problem which is visa endorsement. According to visa regulations a monk can’t extend his visa via a different monastery, but some kind and open head monks will let foreigners to stay in different monasteries but will allow to renew visa from the original.

Keep in mind that foreign monks are a good advertisement to a monastery and some head monks might use these two points to control monks. Therefore, better clarify things before getting into restraining bonds.

For those who wish to ordain with serious spiritual goals, I might suggest Ven. Katukurunde Nyanananda’s place, Potgulgala Monastery. However, I am really helpless when come to recommending monasteries to someone. Keep in mind that most huge monasteries are infested by control freak abbots, corruption, power struggles, and politics. A small monastery with a simple and a genuine abbot will always be a good and a safe choice.

I know some good monks who sometimes help foreign monks sincerely, but I am reluctant to mention their names as they seek no publicity and don’t wish to keep students.

Rob1980 wrote:Perhaps for western layman who interested in meditation, Na Uyana is a good place? As they are not aware of all these underlining problems within the Sangha? Na Uyana, from what I remember, is a huge place, 5000 acres; and there is good facilities there to practice alone in one's kuti?


What you say is true, when you are a monk you are in the system, and the abbot or the senior monks can use that to control or pressure the Sangha, this can become a very stressful or depressing for residents, and can lead to disrobing or even to commit suicide. When a place is huge seniors try to fill the place by ordaining in large numbers, unlike Lord Buddha’s time this means more opportunity for scallywags to join the Sanga. In fact, spoiled abbots need such monks, this is proven in the case of Na-Uyana. Yes, facilities like good food and kutis in a huge place like Na-Uyana can be beneficial for a western layman. Having said that, a western layman when leaving Na-Uyana informed me that he do so after escaping an attempted sexual harassment by two monks who are close to the abbot, which is very unfortunate. All these depend on many conditions.
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Nirosh » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:26 am

Dan74 wrote:Unfortunately you have undermined everything you said above, friend, with this unfair sweep at Ven Gavesako.


Since the begging, it’s evident which direction Bhante Gavesako is heading.
gavesako wrote:such negatively biased views
BlackBird gave a good answer to him by his post on Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:28 am. Nothing wrong in asking a monk to see the things without vipallasas, as adviced by the Lord Buddha. FYI, I listened to a full recording of the conversation which happened between the author of the first email (not the "Nude Monk's book") and Na-Uyana elders.
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Rob1980 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:03 am

Thank you for sharing that information with us Nirosh.

I first went to Na Uyana in 2005, and then after visiting other monasteries in Sri Lanka and Thailand decided that Na Uyana was the most conducive place for ordaination. I ordained there from 2007-2011. Other than the incident that you mentioned on P.96 of the book, I didn't have direct evidence of the incidents mentioned in the book. Though I heard a lot of rumours and when the book came out, it wasn't such a shock. It certainly created a lot of paranoia within the community and myself and a close friend were suspected of being involved(of which neither he nor I was) I still find the whole thing rather remarkable that someone/a group could write such an extensive critique on a monastery, It must have taken a huge amount of time and effort. Do you know who wrote the book?

Ven.Ariyananda and the senior monks were always very accommodating and kind to me and the other foreign monks in general. However, as you said, perhaps the motives behind this might not have been as admirable as it seemed, I don't know.
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby BlackBird » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:56 am

Dear Nirosh, unlike Dan I don't think what you have stated about your negative experiences at Na Uyana is undermined by your responses to Bhante Gavesako, to say so would be logically fallacious. It is clear that there is a lot of wrong doing at play in Na Uyana and I am in debt to you for arriving here and making giving us some clarification that the events detailed in the book are most probably true. It is absolutely disgusting that you were poisoned with sleeping pills and that such a negative experience more or less forced you to disrobe.

I would however caution that perhaps there is a more skillful way to speak to the Venerable Gavesako, since he is both virtuous and accomplished.


with metta
Jack
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'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Nirosh » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:03 am

Rob1980 wrote:Other than the incident that you mentioned on P.96 of the book, I didn't have direct evidence of the incidents mentioned in the book. Though I heard a lot of rumours and when the book came out, it wasn't such a shock.


Usually foreigners are easily kept in the dark due to language and cultural differences. When I was in a monastery in Burma, on regular basis a nun was visiting a local monk in a nearby kuti. We thought that the nun was a student and doing her daily duties as she exhibits a great deal of respect towards the monk. After few months we found that they were having an affair and making physical contact (we do not know how far this went). A friend of mine experienced a similar situation in Thailand, where the monk became parajika. However, in both situations we didn’t create any issue and silently left. Since I mentioned this, a good advice for foreigners is when you are in a foreign country if you witness any bad incident in the monastery, do not try to seek justice, just silently leave. Simply witnessing certain incidents can become a threat for you.

Rob1980 wrote:It certainly created a lot of paranoia within the community and myself and a close friend were suspected of being involved(of which neither he nor I was)


Why it created lot of paranoia within the community? Is it true what I heard, it’s not the book but the way Ven. Ariyananda and some elders handled it created much suffering to the residents.

Why you and your friend was suspected when the monastery has a large number of residence? Do you know who wrote it.

By your name I presume that you are no longer in robes, am I correct? May I know your Pali name.

Rob1980 wrote:I still find the whole thing rather remarkable that someone/a group could write such an extensive critique on a monastery, It must have taken a huge amount of time and effort.


I doubt that it is someone. A group, it must be. If it’s a single person then he is a genius. I think it’s not a critique only on “a monastery” as mentioned in the introduction:

"The reason for Nā-Uyana to be the base of this writing is because of its reputation and much diversity concentrated to one monastery, a good study sample which consists of good, bad, and ugly of modern Buddhism... Thus, by the information with Nā-Uyana as a hub, one can realize the whole picture and the dreary fate of Buddhism in modern times, which is a downhill chain reaction began about fifteen centuries ago."

Rob1980 wrote:Do you know who wrote the book?


No I do not know. Also, I’m unable to suspect a person or even a group due to the book’s complexity. By the time the book became public I wasn’t in Na-Uyana and already began to distant myself from the Sangha, except for a few good monks whom I have much respect.

Rob1980 wrote:Ven.Ariyananda and the senior monks were always very accommodating and kind to me and the other foreign monks in general. However, as you said, perhaps the motives behind this might not have been as admirable as it seemed, I don't know.


I too knew Ven. Ariyananda very well. His character and behaviours remind me Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Yes, it’s very difficult to penetrate the action and to know the intention unless one can read the mind or at least experience some evidence.
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Nirosh » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:13 am

BlackBird wrote:I am in debt to you for arriving here and making giving us some clarification that the events detailed in the book are most probably true.


Some monks informed me about this blog, and requested me to post. They are hesitant to do so out of fear of Na-Uyana and have no wish to expose their identity or to lie to hide it. Indeed, they are true, that’s why if someone says the book is “negatively biased”, I am confident to say the view is bent away from the truth. Such a bend is due to a mind with vipallasa (distortions). If a monk being poisoned and speak out about it. How can we say he is “negatively biased?” Rob1980 said he experienced the hitting incident in the pg . 96, is he negatively biased too? As in Aranavibhanga Sutta, if one really incapable of believing the incidents, it’s more mature to say something like “I think these incidents are negatively biased.” Which is good, because that’s the way he thinks, not the way it is.

Also, thank you BlackBird for starting this thread, which brings awareness and caution. As the Lord Buddha said human birth is rare and precious.

BlackBird wrote:It is absolutely disgusting that you were poisoned with sleeping pills and that such a negative experience more or less forced you to disrobe.


Well BlackBird, I am neither the first nor the last. I was unconscious for about 16 hours. I think, I recovered well. :smile:

BlackBird wrote:I would however caution that perhaps there is a more skillful way to speak to the Venerable Gavesako, since he is both virtuous and accomplished.


As I was a very virtuous monk and a good meditator, I expect monks to be more mature, that’s all. A person’s speech and action will speak for itself to show how accomplished in heightened virtue, mind, and wisdom. I have nothing personal against Bhante Gavesako. :smile:
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby perkele » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:17 pm

Dear Nirosh,

thank you very much for sharing your inside perspective, and the helpful advice that you have given to others here.
:anjali:
I am sure this will be of great value for many.

May you find peace and happiness and the freedom of Nibbana.


And thank you Rob1980 in the same vein, for contributing with consideration to such an important dialogue.


I would however caution that perhaps there is a more skillful way to speak to the Venerable Gavesako, since he is both virtuous and accomplished.


A rebuke is often the most skillful, and motivated by much helpfulness. We all make mistakes and often some help is needed. So there should not be any bad feelings towards Bhante Gavesako from not knowing. We all have cherished opinions and imaginations. I am not free from such for sure.
:broke:

It speaks of integrity though, that you are cautioning towards more friendliness.

I also think he is a good character.

And thank you for starting this thread and discussing with much consideration and mindfulness, so creating the conditions that someone can arrive here to make a knowledgable contribution. :anjali:
Sadhu!

May it be of help for many.

:bow:
:buddha1:
Last edited by perkele on Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Surin monk accused of B56m fraud

Postby forestmat » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:47 pm

Surin monk accused of B56m fraud:

"Villagers have pressed charges against an abbot and a nun at Pa Sri Pracha monastery in Surin's Sikhoraphum district, accusing them of swindling them of cash and assets totalling 56.6 million baht."


http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... rs-of-b56m

Although have to ask yourself why its taken 3 years for this to come to light...

"Paweenut Nawongsri, 52, said Phra Baideegasamai asked to borrow her six-baht-weight gold necklace to pawn for cash for the purchase of construction equipment.

She lent it to him because she had faith in the abbot. Three years had past since then and she still she does not have her necklace back."
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Rob1980 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:36 pm

Why it created lot of paranoia within the community? Is it true what I heard, it’s not the book but the way Ven. Ariyananda and some elders handled it created much suffering to the residents.


As you can imagine there was a bit of witch hunt to find who was responsible, but the problem was they didn't know who was behind it. Needless to say, rumours would surface about who was responsible, and then that person being suspected, like myself would find out and begin to worry about their welfare. I went and spoke directly with the elder monks, including Ven. Ariyananda to ask whether I was being suspected and he said I wasn't and that he knew who was behind the book. Though I wasn't sure whether this was the case, as I kept hearing new stories about who they believed were responsible.

Anyway, it was enough for me to be extremely disillusioned with monasticism in general and I disrobed in August 2011, just before the end of the vassa. The only viable option I saw was to live alone in the forests, as do a quite a few forest monks away from all the politics, but I did not have a strong enough foundation in meditation. So along with another monk, who also felt the same, I disrobed. In some ways it has been a blessing, as I have found a very good teacher in the UK. But I always envisioned myself living out the rest of my days as a monk, living a pure and simple life. And when it came to an end, there was an incredible sadness surrounding it.

I felt slightly hesitant to give my pali name, as I have friends at Na Uyana, and I thought if the elders read what I have said, perhaps I may not be able to go back to Sri Lanka to visit them. But there is nothing that I have said which is harmful to the sangha and not true, therefore I don't mind giving my name. Anyone who wanted to find out who I am and was at Na Uyana could probably work it out anyway. I was given the name 'England Sumana'. What years were you at Na Uyana? Did you not think about reporting the incident to the police? Do you have any friends still at Na Uyana?
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby BlackBird » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:48 pm

Thank you for your kind words Perkele and thank you both Nirosh & Rob for your contributions, I feel vindicated in making the original post because of your supporting anecdotes. I too have witnessed quite a bit of corruption in the Sangha during my time in Sri Lanka, but surely nothing on the scale that you have.

I am utterly disgusted by the actions (murder, poisoning, sexual activities, corruption, misappropriation of funds etc etc) that have been detailed. Thank you for coming forward, it is for the long term good that you have done so.

Eventually it would be nice if the parajika men were to be investigated and forcibly disrobed (given their reluctance to remove themselves from the robes that they have no right to wear), but I know all too well that such an occurrence would be a pipe dream given the permeation of corruption at all levels. It gives me pause for thought in my own intentions to ordain in future, and I shall certainly be much more careful about selecting the right place than I was during my last attempt (in Sri Lanka).

with metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby Rob1980 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:55 pm

BlackBird wrote:Eventually it would be nice if the parajika men were to be investigated and forcibly disrobed (given their reluctance to remove themselves from the robes that they have no right to wear)


I would not be too quick to judge everyone who had a parajika offense levelled against them in the book as 'parajika men'. It may well be that they are parajika, in which case they are no longer Bhikkhus anyway. But it maybe that some of the incidents reported may come from a misunderstanding or might not be entirely accurate. In a monastic community which doesn't have access to worldly news, there is a tendency for rumours and stories to take on a rather too fanastic turn. I am not denying what the author in the book wrote but I would say there is one inaccuracy that I am aware of, and there may be more. For example, the monk that Ven. Ariyananda beat with a stick was not a senior monk, but was actually a samanera. Though it could be argued that he was a senior monk, as he had taken pabbaja before Ven. Ariyananda. But he was not a bhikkhu, yet by saying he was a senior monk gives the story more weight. Though that is not to excuse beating another human being with a stick.

I should also add that although Ven. Sanghasobhana did have a bit of a temper, he has a very good heart; I found the comments about him in the book quite childish and naive. He worked tirelessly for other monks and for the sangha when I was there. It was sad to see the book portraying him in such a negative light.
Last edited by Rob1980 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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