Dealing with grudge/rancor

[lostitude]

Hello,

English not being my mother tongue, I'm not sure which word is the right one (grudge or rancor).
It's a feeling I have been having more and more often in the past few years, I've noticed, and I have a hard time overcoming it.

Last time I was wrongly accused in an incident by a 'witness' who lied against me, saying I had done something that I had never done. Said 'witness' hadn't seen anything, but probably just wanted a big fuss to happen, simply for the fun of it. It happened almost a year ago, and I still think about this woman wishing I could have shut her up, or wishing that she gets what she deserves for spreading false accusations.

No need to give the many other examples I can think of... sometimes the grudge is so strong I can spend several minutes thinking about it and imagining how I could have reacted, not to defuse the confrontation, but to win it. And it always leaves me sad and with a bitter feeling against myself too...

Any advice about how to get rid of such thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your kind help.

[jweyek]

I too have vengeful thoughts about perceived injustices. In time they disappear. That's my experience. Perhaps you might want to practice metta bhavana. It couldn't hurt. I think your situation is the type of thing that metta bhavana is meant to overcome.


https://youtu.be/F_4aRznxXkI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[befriend]

emmit fox has a visualization technique that lets go of resentment.

[Thisperson]

Hello,

English not being my mother tongue, I'm not sure which word is the right one (grudge or rancor).
It's a feeling I have been having more and more often in the past few years, I've noticed, and I have a hard time overcoming it.

Last time I was wrongly accused in an incident by a 'witness' who lied against me, saying I had done something that I had never done. Said 'witness' hadn't seen anything, but probably just wanted a big fuss to happen, simply for the fun of it. It happened almost a year ago, and I still think about this woman wishing I could have shut her up, or wishing that she gets what she deserves for spreading false accusations.

No need to give the many other examples I can think of... sometimes the grudge is so strong I can spend several minutes thinking about it and imagining how I could have reacted, not to defuse the confrontation, but to win it. And it always leaves me sad and with a bitter feeling against myself too...

Any advice about how to get rid of such thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your kind help.

Instead of getting "sucked in" and lost in a grudge, try to pay mindful attention of how it feels to hold a grudge.

The Dvedhavitakka Sutta helps with this (and other afflictions):

And as I remained thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, thinking imbued with ill will arose in me. I discerned that 'Thinking imbued with ill will has arisen in me; and that leads to my own affliction or to the affliction of others or to the affliction of both. It obstructs discernment, promotes vexation, & does not lead to Unbinding.'

"As I noticed that it leads to my own affliction, it subsided. As I noticed that it leads to the affliction of others... to the affliction of both... it obstructs discernment, promotes vexation, & does not lead to Unbinding, it subsided. Whenever thinking imbued with ill will had arisen, I simply abandoned it, dispelled it, wiped it out of existence.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

In other words, try to notice with mindfulness how holding a grudge negatively effects your mind and body as well as potentially negatively effecting others. As you mindfully see over and over again the affliction that comes to mind and body when perpetuating a grudge, there will be much less of a tendency to hold a grudge. Working to cultivate metta as noted above is also helpful.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings lostitude,

Last time I was wrongly accused in an incident by a 'witness' who lied against me, saying I had done something that I had never done. Said 'witness' hadn't seen anything, but probably just wanted a big fuss to happen, simply for the fun of it. It happened almost a year ago, and I still think about this woman wishing I could have shut her up, or wishing that she gets what she deserves for spreading false accusations.
...
Any advice about how to get rid of such thoughts?

Yes - remember that it's because of their life issues that they're acting that way, not yours. She'd probably watched one too many episodes of Law And Order and wanted make her life a bit more eventful. You can be thankful and appreciative that you are not her, nor like her!

As such there is no reason for you to be "sad and with a bitter feeling against [yourself]" just because others elect to be sad and bitter individuals, spreading their false and noxious accusations.

I believe it is better to trust and have faith in kamma than fall under the delusion that spreading accusations and harbouring suspicious thoughts is the way to go.

All the best. I hope you're feeling better soon and that she has not inflicted too much suffering on you with her stupidity.

Metta,
Paul.

[Cittasanto]

Hello,
Last time I was wrongly accused in an incident by a 'witness' who lied against me, saying I had done something that I had never done. Said 'witness' hadn't seen anything, but probably just wanted a big fuss to happen, simply for the fun of it. It happened almost a year ago, and I still think about this woman wishing I could have shut her up, or wishing that she gets what she deserves for spreading false accusations.

I remember the Buddha's advice when the Sangha was framed for murder. He told the monks to give Dhamma talks on truth. This may not be 100% suitable for your situation, but may be of some benefit for your reflections.

No need to give the many other examples I can think of... sometimes the grudge is so strong I can spend several minutes thinking about it and imagining how I could have reacted, not to defuse the confrontation, but to win it. And it always leaves me sad and with a bitter feeling against myself too...

Try Metta meditation, I am not fond of using it as a sitting practice, other than reciting the Karaniya-metta Sutta. But as an engaged practice.
when I see someone I feel negativly toward, or someone is throwing false assertions about me or what I say, I remember they are the owner of their actions, and I do not have to accept it as mine, and think about the consequenses of what they do and how it would affect myself if I did accept it personally. And also remember I should not expect more than what has happened.

But maybe this sutta is worth reflecting on

Kind Regards
Cittasanto

[Mr Man]

Last time I was wrongly accused in an incident by a 'witness' who lied against me, saying I had done something that I had never done. Said 'witness' hadn't seen anything, but probably just wanted a big fuss to happen, simply for the fun of it. It happened almost a year ago, and I still think about this woman wishing I could have shut her up, or wishing that she gets what she deserves for spreading false accusations.
...
Any advice about how to get rid of such thoughts?

lostitude. In my opinion you should reflect on whether your thoughts are skilful or unskilful. Do they bring you and others benefit or not.

Yes - remember that it's because of their life issues that they're acting that way, not yours. She'd probably watched one too many episodes of Law And Order and wanted make her life a bit more eventful. You can be thankful and appreciative that you are not her, nor like her!

As such there is no reason for you to be "sad and with a bitter feeling against [yourself]" just because others elect to be sad and bitter individuals, spreading their false and noxious accusations.

Do you know the third party? If you do not it seems incredibly odd that you condemn them in such a way. In my opinion there is great irony in your post Paul.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Mr Man,

Do you know the third party? If you do not it seems incredibly odd that you condemn them in such a way. In my opinion there is great irony in your post Paul.

Of course not. I took lostitude at face value when they said...

Last time I was wrongly accused in an incident by a 'witness' who lied against me, saying I had done something that I had never done. Said 'witness' hadn't seen anything, but probably just wanted a big fuss to happen, simply for the fun of it.

It is appropriate to condemn false allegations and lies - both according to conventional common sense and according to the Dhamma.

"For the person who transgresses in one thing, I tell you, there is no evil deed that is not to be done. Which one thing? This: telling a deliberate lie."

The person who lies,
who transgress in this one thing,
transcending concern for the world beyond:
there's no evil
he might not do.

Specifically in the context of witnesses...

"There is the case where a certain person, abandoning false speech, abstains from false speech. When he has been called to a town meeting, a group meeting, a gathering of his relatives, his guild, or of the royalty, if he is asked as a witness, 'Come & tell, good man, what you know': If he doesn't know, he says, 'I don't know.' If he does know, he says, 'I know.' If he hasn't seen, he says, 'I haven't seen.' If he has seen, he says, 'I have seen.' Thus he doesn't consciously tell a lie for his own sake, for the sake of another, or for the sake of any reward. Abandoning false speech, he abstains from false speech. He speaks the truth, holds to the truth, is firm, reliable, no deceiver of the world.

Besides... why is it a "great irony" Mr Man? Are you getting personal with your ad-hominem argumentation again?

Metta,
Paul.

[Mr Man]

Greetings Mr Man,

Do you know the third party? If you do not it seems incredibly odd that you condemn them in such a way. In my opinion there is great irony in your post Paul.

Of course not. I took lostitude at face value when they said...

Last time I was wrongly accused in an incident by a 'witness' who lied against me, saying I had done something that I had never done. Said 'witness' hadn't seen anything, but probably just wanted a big fuss to happen, simply for the fun of it.

It is appropriate to condemn false allegations and lies - both according to conventional common sense and according to the Dhamma.

Besides... why is it a "great irony" Mr Man? Are you getting personal with your ad-hominem argumentation again?

Hi Paul, I do not perceive that I am getting personal with ad-hominem argumentation. I am responding to what is posted.

[dagon]

Hello,

English not being my mother tongue, I'm not sure which word is the right one (grudge or rancor).
It's a feeling I have been having more and more often in the past few years, I've noticed, and I have a hard time overcoming it.

Last time I was wrongly accused in an incident by a 'witness' who lied against me, saying I had done something that I had never done. Said 'witness' hadn't seen anything, but probably just wanted a big fuss to happen, simply for the fun of it. It happened almost a year ago, and I still think about this woman wishing I could have shut her up, or wishing that she gets what she deserves for spreading false accusations.

No need to give the many other examples I can think of... sometimes the grudge is so strong I can spend several minutes thinking about it and imagining how I could have reacted, not to defuse the confrontation, but to win it. And it always leaves me sad and with a bitter feeling against myself too...

Any advice about how to get rid of such thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your kind help.

Hi lostitude

If I use an example of my own experiences you may be able to find some answers to some of your problems.

A new shift manager arrived at work (a role that is both stressful and demanding) and the first shift was a disaster for her. She asked me “is it always like this for the shift managers”. I replied honestly but without compassion that other managers did not have the same difficulty. (Precepts/ pass, Brahma-vihara – fail). She developed an immediate aversion to me.

The following 3 year she took every opportunity to try and harass, intimidate and belittle me – the more people who were present the more she enjoyed. The situation was so extreme that clients, their families and others made complains about my treatment to upper management, In one case a visiting Doctor lodged a written complain about the conduct of the Shift manager towards me.

Having said that, she treated everyone with distain and disrespect. Her treatment of me sensitised other to the behaviours towards them. The inevitable result is that she became increasing isolated with people avoiding working with her creating an ever increasing spiral of suffering for herself. Her intention to hurt others created more karma ….

I could have easily moved to another area or employer. I am very good at my job – that is the assessment of other people. In fact I rejected unsolicited job offers with more status , pay and employment conditions.

There were three reasons why I stayed. I love my job and what I do. The work and my approach to it is very beneficial to my development. The third and negative reason was that my ego did not want her to win. What has saved the situation for me and addressed the suffering was using the situation in my study, mediation and reflections.

Feelings of injustice gave way to an acceptance that my karma was involved in the situation. A realisation that my suffering was a result of my aversions and my view of self. There was a lot more but this post is already too long.

I no longer dislike this person and am glad that the situation occurred. I am free to leave anytime I want. The battle that I needed to win was against my conditioning, my attractions and aversions. “I” was my problem.

I found this very useful - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el006.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta

[lostitude]

Thanks everyone for your advice and experiences! It was all very useful.

I think I had to ask the question here to find the beginning of an answer for myself. I've realised that whatever grudge I hold is about things that happened in the past, and that whenever I think about it and cause suffering to myself, I am actually guilty of dwelling in the past. None of those painful moments exist anymore! Simply coming back to the here and now seems to solve the issue...
I am not sure if this is a final and bulletproof solution but for the moment it works. So thanks again for helping me think about it more constructively.