"Among the meditation themes suggested for rousing energy is the contemplation of our imminent death. Or reflecting on the theme that all conditioned things are unsatisfactory may inspire a more diligent attitude."
I really trust this statement everywhere I see it but I don't have a DEEP intuitive feel for it like I'd like. Can anyone recommend some reading material on this? A deep delving into the nature of why conditioned things aren't satisfactory? I want to look at the few things I do for enjoyment every day and be able to say with deep knowing "I know exactly what this is, what it brings me, how, why, and to what extent it is unsatisfying, and how it compares to what is known to be absolutely satisfying.
Thanks for your time. : )
"All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
- Khalil Bodhi
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Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
Gintoki,
I commend you for your commitment and ardor. I think this is one case, however, where reading alone won't do it. Do you have access to a teacher or group? If so, I'd recommend trying some practice with them (and please excuse me for being so presumptuous). Either way, I hope you soon find the answers you're looking for.
Every good blessing,
KB
I commend you for your commitment and ardor. I think this is one case, however, where reading alone won't do it. Do you have access to a teacher or group? If so, I'd recommend trying some practice with them (and please excuse me for being so presumptuous). Either way, I hope you soon find the answers you're looking for.
Every good blessing,
KB
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183
The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
My Practice Blog:
http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
-Dhp. 183
The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
My Practice Blog:
http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
I agree with Khalil. The kind of deep intuitive feel you desire is something that will never happen through readings alone. It is something only arises after sustained practice and meditation.Gintoki wrote: I really trust this statement everywhere I see it but I don't have a DEEP intuitive feel for it like I'd like. Can anyone recommend some reading material on this? A deep delving into the nature of why conditioned things aren't satisfactory? I want to look at the few things I do for enjoyment every day and be able to say with deep knowing "I know exactly what this is, what it brings me, how, why, and to what extent it is unsatisfying, and how it compares to what is known to be absolutely satisfying.
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
Waterchan,
I agree with you and Khalil. However, contemplation of things can help.
The things that stimulate us and bring us pleasure, while nice, are also fleeting. One day we might be poor and those movies or books may be far from us and unavailable. We may not be able to engage in hobbies that once stimulated us and satisfied us. We may be away from loved ones... from all the things that we enjoyed so. Things always change and we may not have access to those things we derive happiness from now. We will crave those fleeting impermanent things. They won't be a source of joy for us at that time - their memory and the fact that have separated from them will just be a cause of stress and worry for us, a great headache.
Happiness can be derived from such things... Fleeting, impermanent happiness, happiness which one can not rely on... happiness that is not a safe refuge, but an island that will without a doubt be inundated with a flood.
Why? That is simple: it is because it is a happiness derived from relying on things which are impermanent, not-self, and unsatisfactory (aniccā, anattā, dukkhā).
It helps to ask ourselves, Where Are You Going?
All the best,
Kevin
I agree with you and Khalil. However, contemplation of things can help.
The things that stimulate us and bring us pleasure, while nice, are also fleeting. One day we might be poor and those movies or books may be far from us and unavailable. We may not be able to engage in hobbies that once stimulated us and satisfied us. We may be away from loved ones... from all the things that we enjoyed so. Things always change and we may not have access to those things we derive happiness from now. We will crave those fleeting impermanent things. They won't be a source of joy for us at that time - their memory and the fact that have separated from them will just be a cause of stress and worry for us, a great headache.
Happiness can be derived from such things... Fleeting, impermanent happiness, happiness which one can not rely on... happiness that is not a safe refuge, but an island that will without a doubt be inundated with a flood.
Why? That is simple: it is because it is a happiness derived from relying on things which are impermanent, not-self, and unsatisfactory (aniccā, anattā, dukkhā).
It helps to ask ourselves, Where Are You Going?
All the best,
Kevin
Last edited by Virgo on Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
Khalil Bodhi, I feel like I understand what you mean. And thanks for the kind words
I'd love to take your advice. I do live between Dallas/Ft Worth Texas and I'm sure there might be a means to find a group or teacher but there are complications in my life that keep me from taking part in any of that until I become more attentive to my wife's emotional needs. Things would be different if we still had 2 vehicles.
I want to do a lot of reading or listening to dhamma talks because the information seems to get soaked up by my subconscious and every now and then I'll be doing something and an insight will just click and I'll understand the way in which what I've heard is partly false or correct. Sometimes I get the feeling that I was born into this life pretending I'm not already enlightened, my intuition is usually very "in my face" when my head is in the right direction. Whatever is running in the background of my mind is almost always conducive to my awakening, it seems like. I definitely need to do more sitting meditation, I almost always do active meditation, it feels like there is more to reflect myself off of in my still/empty observation and I find a lot of joy in simple motion of my body.
For now I feel like all I've got available is material for reflection and meditation. Though I'll admit lately I'm addicted to researching and don't meditate nearly as much as I should (not even active) so I'm taking my time dissolving my goal oriented mindset. Even though I know there is no real chasing to be done, I'm hooked on the illusion of it.
I'd love to take your advice. I do live between Dallas/Ft Worth Texas and I'm sure there might be a means to find a group or teacher but there are complications in my life that keep me from taking part in any of that until I become more attentive to my wife's emotional needs. Things would be different if we still had 2 vehicles.
I want to do a lot of reading or listening to dhamma talks because the information seems to get soaked up by my subconscious and every now and then I'll be doing something and an insight will just click and I'll understand the way in which what I've heard is partly false or correct. Sometimes I get the feeling that I was born into this life pretending I'm not already enlightened, my intuition is usually very "in my face" when my head is in the right direction. Whatever is running in the background of my mind is almost always conducive to my awakening, it seems like. I definitely need to do more sitting meditation, I almost always do active meditation, it feels like there is more to reflect myself off of in my still/empty observation and I find a lot of joy in simple motion of my body.
For now I feel like all I've got available is material for reflection and meditation. Though I'll admit lately I'm addicted to researching and don't meditate nearly as much as I should (not even active) so I'm taking my time dissolving my goal oriented mindset. Even though I know there is no real chasing to be done, I'm hooked on the illusion of it.
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
My experience is that the satisfaction conditioned things may cause is not permanent but that does not mean that they are not satisfactory at all.
Inspiration is based on the exchange of different linguistic expressions. But inspiration is best knowing how language relates to truth.
- retrofuturist
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Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
Greetings Gintoki,
I recommend reading "Getting To Where You Are: The Life Of Meditation" by Steven Harrison.
Despite barely referencing Buddhist concepts, it cuts straight to the heart of the matter. Very incisive stuff...
Metta,
Retro.
I recommend reading "Getting To Where You Are: The Life Of Meditation" by Steven Harrison.
Despite barely referencing Buddhist concepts, it cuts straight to the heart of the matter. Very incisive stuff...
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
I find myself thinking that myself when I'm especially interested in unwholesome kamma. I want to uproot this feeling.Herbie wrote:My experience is that the satisfaction conditioned things may cause is not permanent but that does not mean that they are not satisfactory at all.
I'm certainly interested, though one of the negative reviews on amazon stated he wasn't supportive of buddhism. This has me a little wary.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Gintoki,
I recommend reading "Getting To Where You Are: The Life Of Meditation" by Steven Harrison.
Despite barely referencing Buddhist concepts, it cuts straight to the heart of the matter. Very incisive stuff...
Metta,
Retro.
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
My interest is more about experiential facts. The question is: What does "satisfactory" in the context of things mean? From my perspective "satisfactory" indicates the fact that the experienced effect of a conditioned thing meets the expected effect.Gintoki wrote:I find myself thinking that myself when I'm especially interested in unwholesome kamma. I want to uproot this feeling.Herbie wrote:My experience is that the satisfaction conditioned things may cause is not permanent but that does not mean that they are not satisfactory at all.
E.g. if I am hungry the conditioned thing called "bread" is satisfactory because I expect bread to serve the purpose to remove hunger and bread meets my expectation. However the satisfaction is not permanent because after some time hunger returns.
Inspiration is based on the exchange of different linguistic expressions. But inspiration is best knowing how language relates to truth.
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
I have a clearer understanding now and think I've answered my question. When the Buddha says unsatisfactory I take it to mean unsatisfying in every sense of the word, as to say that even momentary satisfaction of an experience isn't actually satisfying. So far I can chalk it to mean that what we experience as satisfaction is actually our own ignorance based identity, attachments..etc giving us false security. When I personally am in a deep stillness/empty state of mind, I don't find joy in anything but I certainly have joy, it's just without reason, and I find myself with more peace than I've ever had. So this experience in itself tells me that satisfaction from conditioned "things" and met conditions isn't real satisfaction because it only meets the satisfaction that's in correlation with as much of ourselves as we've realized, which is incomplete, unwhole, and thus someone who is fully conscious/realized such as the buddha wouldn't experience what we do as satisfaction as real satisfaction in accordance to our real self (or lack thereof). Our satisfaction is fake.Herbie wrote:My interest is more about experiential facts. The question is: What does "satisfactory" in the context of things mean? From my perspective "satisfactory" indicates the fact that the experienced effect of a conditioned thing meets the expected effect.Gintoki wrote:I find myself thinking that myself when I'm especially interested in unwholesome kamma. I want to uproot this feeling.Herbie wrote:My experience is that the satisfaction conditioned things may cause is not permanent but that does not mean that they are not satisfactory at all.
E.g. if I am hungry the conditioned thing called "bread" is satisfactory because I expect bread to serve the purpose to remove hunger and bread meets my expectation. However the satisfaction is not permanent because after some time hunger returns.
In that I feel this way about conditioned satisfaction, I still just want to dive right into indulging myself with illusions. No great realization or profound peace and joy I've felt have ever been cause for dissolving my interest in illusory attachments. I'd think I'd feel on some deep level "I just got way more fulfillment out of mindless dettachment than I've ever got from my everyday unhealthy interests, I now have unrefutable proof and wisdom that letting go of these interests and their indulgence will leave me more fulfilled than they ever will." But I don't. This leads me to my main reason in making this thread, figuring out how I can keep motivated and interested. I find myself feeling like I could care less about happiness or true satisfaction, I want instant gratification...but only until I get beat up by it's consequences and decide to get back to practice till I lose interest...and go back to instant gratifcation. I'm sick of this, so I want to realize whatever it is that will keep me persistant with a clear view of things that doesn't dissapear the next day upon waking.
- retrofuturist
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Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
Greetings Gintoki,
Having read reviews, those who tend to not like his writings are those who expect their authors to be timid and deferential. Steven Harrison is neither of those things...
Metta,
Retro.
To any extent he's not supportive of "Buddhism", he is genuinely supportive of "Dhamma".Gintoki wrote:I'm certainly interested, though one of the negative reviews on amazon stated he wasn't supportive of buddhism. This has me a little wary.
Having read reviews, those who tend to not like his writings are those who expect their authors to be timid and deferential. Steven Harrison is neither of those things...
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
Hi Gintoki,
If putting effort into that contemplation nor the perception of death aren't providing a sense of energy right now in your practice, then try something else. Find something that your mind has a more natural interest in—this may not be the same thing as time goes on and that's fine. The point is you'll be practicing and figuring things out for yourself.
At least that was how I was taught. Hope it helps.
With metta,
James
PS
Perception of death works well for me in arousing energy and presence of mind. Like you, I haven't yet come to the point where the dukkha contemplation is really resonating so I've largely set it aside, for now. I'm quite sure I'll come back to it. Anyway, AN 8.73 is a great sutta about the perception of death—I can't find a good translation of it online though.
If putting effort into that contemplation nor the perception of death aren't providing a sense of energy right now in your practice, then try something else. Find something that your mind has a more natural interest in—this may not be the same thing as time goes on and that's fine. The point is you'll be practicing and figuring things out for yourself.
At least that was how I was taught. Hope it helps.
With metta,
James
PS
Perception of death works well for me in arousing energy and presence of mind. Like you, I haven't yet come to the point where the dukkha contemplation is really resonating so I've largely set it aside, for now. I'm quite sure I'll come back to it. Anyway, AN 8.73 is a great sutta about the perception of death—I can't find a good translation of it online though.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
You can't force insights to occur. Insights will come when they come. All you can do is setup the conditions for them to arise. One of those conditions is leaning the mind towards inquiry. Joining a community is also another condition conducive to insight. Others are meditating, studying, etc. Just keep creating the right conditions and allow the insights to arise on their own accord.
- tattoogunman
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:08 pm
- Location: Plano, TX
Re: "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"
There are a number of temples in our area (Dallas/Ft. Worth), but the issue I have found with the ones nearest to me are that they are staffed predominantly with native speaking monks (i.e. Thai, Vietnamese, etc.). If they do have English speakers, they are the ones who give the "Westerner" classes once a week on days/nights that I cannot attend due to scheduling conflicts. Lately, I have been going to the one nearest me (Dallas Buddhist Association in Richardson) and doing research/reading in their library. It's quite since there is usually nobody there and they don't mind if you use the facility. They even have quite a selection of free publications that you can take to read on your own. I really wish there was somewhere out here that was reasonably close that had more English speakers available, guess I need to move to CaliforniaGintoki wrote:Khalil Bodhi, I feel like I understand what you mean. And thanks for the kind words
I'd love to take your advice. I do live between Dallas/Ft Worth Texas and I'm sure there might be a means to find a group or teacher but there are complications in my life that keep me from taking part in any of that until I become more attentive to my wife's emotional needs. Things would be different if we still had 2 vehicles.
I want to do a lot of reading or listening to dhamma talks because the information seems to get soaked up by my subconscious and every now and then I'll be doing something and an insight will just click and I'll understand the way in which what I've heard is partly false or correct. Sometimes I get the feeling that I was born into this life pretending I'm not already enlightened, my intuition is usually very "in my face" when my head is in the right direction. Whatever is running in the background of my mind is almost always conducive to my awakening, it seems like. I definitely need to do more sitting meditation, I almost always do active meditation, it feels like there is more to reflect myself off of in my still/empty observation and I find a lot of joy in simple motion of my body.
For now I feel like all I've got available is material for reflection and meditation. Though I'll admit lately I'm addicted to researching and don't meditate nearly as much as I should (not even active) so I'm taking my time dissolving my goal oriented mindset. Even though I know there is no real chasing to be done, I'm hooked on the illusion of it.