Greetings Alex,
They exist as Anicca, Dukkha, and anatta.
“And what is it, bhikkhus, that the wise in the world agree upon as existing, of which I too say that it exists? Form that is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change: this the wise in the world agree upon as existing, and I too say that it exists. Feeling that is impermanent … Perception … Volitional constructions … Consciousness that is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change: this the wise in the world agree upon as existing, and I
too say that it exists. “That, bhikkhus, is what the wise in the world agree upon as existing, of which I too say that it exists.
SN22.94 (2) Flowers BB Translation
Bhikkhu Bodhi is translating there according to his ontological beliefs (as is obvious when you look at his comments on this sutta vis-a-vis SN 12.15).
Therefore it always serves to look up multiple translations. Here's one, for example, that doesn't even once mention the word "exist".
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ggo-e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you want to demonstrate that the sutta really says "exist" (since it's this word that is seemingly the thrust of your argument), tell us where, in the Pali....
94.
581Sāvatthinidānaṃ. “Nāhaṃ, bhikkhave, lokena vivadāmi, lokova mayā vivadati. Na, bhikkhave, dhammavādī kenaci lokasmiṃ vivadati. Yaṃ, bhikkhave, natthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ, ahampi taṃ ‘natthī’ti vadāmi. Yaṃ, bhikkhave, atthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ, ahampi taṃ ‘atthī’ti vadāmi.
582Kiñca, bhikkhave, natthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ, yamahaṃ ‘natthī’ti vadāmi? Rūpaṃ, bhikkhave, niccaṃ dhuvaṃ sassataṃ avipariṇāmadhammaṃ natthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ; ahampi taṃ ‘natthī’ti vadāmi. Vedanā… saññā… saṅkhārā… viññāṇaṃ niccaṃ dhuvaṃ sassataṃ avipariṇāmadhammaṃ natthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ; ahampi taṃ ‘natthī’ti vadāmi. Idaṃ kho, bhikkhave, natthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ; ahampi taṃ ‘natthī’ti vadāmi.
583Kiñca, bhikkhave, atthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ, yamahaṃ ‘atthī’ti vadāmi? Rūpaṃ, bhikkhave, aniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipariṇāmadhammaṃ atthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ; ahampi taṃ ‘atthī’ti vadāmi. Vedanā aniccā…pe… viññāṇaṃ aniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipariṇāmadhammaṃ atthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ; ahampi taṃ ‘atthī’ti vadāmi. Idaṃ kho, bhikkhave, atthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ; ahampi taṃ ‘atthī’ti vadāmi.
584Atthi, bhikkhave, loke lokadhammo, taṃ tathāgato abhisambujjhati abhisameti; abhisambujjhitvā abhisametvā taṃ ācikkhati deseti paññapeti paṭṭhapeti vivarati vibhajati uttānīkaroti.
585Kiñca, bhikkhave, loke lokadhammo, taṃ tathāgato abhisambujjhati abhisameti, abhisambujjhitvā abhisametvā ācikkhati deseti paññapeti paṭṭhapeti vivarati vibhajati uttānīkaroti? Rūpaṃ, bhikkhave, loke lokadhammo taṃ tathāgato abhisambujjhati abhisameti. Abhisambujjhitvā abhisametvā ācikkhati deseti paññapeti paṭṭhapeti vivarati vibhajati uttānīkaroti.
586Yo, bhikkhave, tathāgatena evaṃ ācikkhiyamāne desiyamāne paññapiyamāne paṭṭhapiyamāne vivariyamāne vibhajiyamāne uttānīkariyamāne na jānāti na passati tamahaṃ, bhikkhave, bālaṃ puthujjanaṃ andhaṃ acakkhukaṃ ajānantaṃ apassantaṃ kinti karomi. Vedanā, bhikkhave, loke lokadhammo…pe… saññā, bhikkhave… saṅkhārā, bhikkhave… viññāṇaṃ, bhikkhave, loke lokadhammo taṃ tathāgato abhisambujjhati abhisameti. Abhisambujjhitvā abhisametvā ācikkhati deseti paññapeti paṭṭhapeti vivarati vibhajati uttānīkaroti.
587Yo, bhikkhave, tathāgatena evaṃ ācikkhiyamāne desiyamāne paññapiyamāne paṭṭhapiyamāne vivariyamāne vibhajiyamāne uttānīkariyamāne na jānāti na passati tamahaṃ, bhikkhave, bālaṃ puthujjanaṃ andhaṃ acakkhukaṃ ajānantaṃ apassantaṃ kinti karomi.
588Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, uppalaṃ vā padumaṃ vā puṇḍarīkaṃ vā udake jātaṃ udake saṃvaḍḍhaṃ udakā accuggamma ṭhāti anupalittaṃ udakena; evameva kho, bhikkhave, tathāgato loke jāto loke saṃvaḍḍho lokaṃ abhibhuyya viharati anupalitto lokenā”ti.
589Dutiyaṃ.
http://studies.worldtipitaka.org/tipita ... .5/1.2.5.2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It you take "it exists" as an ontological proposition, you're left afterwards with the resultant "it doesn't exist"... and whatever that "it" was, "it" was annihilated. It's not a road I'd want to go down...
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."