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The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate - Page 14 - Dhamma Wheel

The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
Virgo
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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby Virgo » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:38 pm

Friends:

The following is a good discussion which I highly recommend. Please enjoy it.



Sincerely,

Kevin


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daverupa
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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby daverupa » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:12 pm

It's odd to take paramatha sacca as a given when comparing the suttas and the abhidhamma, as that discussion seems to do. I find the abhidhamma's premise that the suttas are in conventional language while it itself is in ultimate language to be woefully unsupported.

I see these abhidhammas as being records of the sorts of discussions Buddhist virtuosos were having amongst themselves as time went on. They respond to context, and in this differ little from any book on the Dhamma which is trying to explain it for a particular audience in a different space-time matrix than the specifically 'Nikayan' worldview.

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Kumara
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Re: Ajahn Buddhadasa on Abhidhamma

Postby Kumara » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:38 am

I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

thomaslaw
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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby thomaslaw » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:32 am

Dear Dhamma friends,

Regarding the notion/concept of Paramattha shown in Abhidhammattha Sangaha 'Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma', p. 25, I consider that it is very likely that the teachings of Paramattha (and its connection with Pa~n~natti 'Concept') are 'not' supported by the suttas, particularly the SN suttas (cf. Choong MK, The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism, pp. 54, 92, 138 (on 'pa~n~naapeti'), 154).
E.g. the five aggregates (according to the SN suttas) should be seen as they really are as 'void (without reality, rittaka), insubstantial (tucchaka), and lacking essence (asaaraka)' (SN 22.95: PTS, iii, 140-143), because they are phenomena (dhammas) arisen by causal condition ('not' by their own right as 'irreducible' realities/components of existence), having the nature (dhamma) of anicca 'impermanence', nirodha 'cessation' (SN 12.20: PTS ii, 25-27).

Regards,

Thomas

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Alex123
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Re: Ajahn Buddhadasa on Abhidhamma

Postby Alex123 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:42 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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lionking
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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby lionking » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:44 am

grr ..

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cjmacie
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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby cjmacie » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:14 am

postby lionking » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:44 pm

"Well, the Buddha insisted on keeping things simple. He said he will only divulge the things essential for enlightenment."
As the Buddha saw fit, out of expediency, to concentrate for teaching purposes on a "handful of leaves" compared to all the rest of the forest compost, the vast details of his experience and knowledge, my view is that Abhidhammikers were attempting to "reverse engineer" the distilled teachings towards getting a sense of the whole forest of leaves – at least mapping-out that territory. (Some see the abhidhamma as claiming to be exhaustive, hence hopelessly complex; other modern commentators, e.g. Rupert Gethin, hold that it was understood as illustrative, as demonstration of methodology.)

"So the Pali Tripitaka is akin to a driving manual. The Abhidhamma is the manual on combustion engine and its principles. All you need for the journey is the driving manual. Although if curiosity arises one may take a peek at the mechanics with the Abhidhamma too."
A corrolary viewpoint might be that driving, say, a Formula 1 machine involves a more refined awareness of and sensitivity to the technicalities.

Though the commentaries and sub-commentaries do seem to often spin off in rather dubious directions, obscure corners of esoterica, my sense is the basic abhidhamma texts can be useful supports to bhavana-practice, especially for the more intellectually inclined. That it's all seems extraneously heady, impractical to some doesn't mean that it can't be an aid to refining insight for others.

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lionking
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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby lionking » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:10 am

grr ..

theY
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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby theY » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:37 am

Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
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Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

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Zom
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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby Zom » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:48 pm



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