chownah wrote:
I only mentioned Jesus because the word salvation has such a Christian connotation...and because you said you were Christian many years ago. It could be that your fear of death has it's roots in your catholic upbringing....going to hell and all that makes one fear death even more than the usual fear of death which it seems like most all people have...and especially when the hell fire and brimstone is drummed into a child.
Not fear of hell, which is also a big fear, but fear of finishing my existing completely, this is my biggest fear.
chownah wrote:The good news is that if fear of death is your main concern then you need not worry about enlightenment because fear of death can be conquered much more easily than obtaining enlightenment. I think you are already perhaps slightly aware of what can vanquish the fear of death.
There are lots of people who claim to have conquered fear of death, including religious people
Unfortunately, I find their arguments quite unconvincing.
On the other hand, my Zen Master claims that with satori you see that there is no "I" so you have no fear of death, at least for that moment.
This is why I am striving to get satori
chownah wrote: You have talked about learning about self concept and your zen quote can on one way be seen to be talking about the self concept. I have no doubt (although I'm sure that you will have doubt
) that if you do learn about the buddha's teachings about having no doctrine of self then you would be able to overcome fear of death.......without even considering whether you achieve enlightenment. Way before you achieve enlightenment you should be able to overcome the fear of death mostly through cultivating an understanding of the delusional nature of self......and this very same understanding of the delusional self can be extended to take you all the way to enlightenment.....although I'm sure that you doubt it
.
I do not think you can overcome fear of death by a "teaching".
The other day, also, I was thinking that it would actually be good to have death, so if there is an enlightenment, people would be forced to pursue it at least because of fear of death.
Which is more or less my case.
Without death, there probably would be no buddhism and no religions and no look for enlightenment.
chownah wrote:The idea is that you could start doing a serious study of self/no-self/not-self/no doctrine of self right away as a way to address your fear of death while at the same time keeping your eye open to where there might be a teaching more appropriate for you that is directed toward enlightenment.
I do not believe in teachings alone
chownah wrote:Did you know that this very same issue of the I or self which was introduced to you in zen is also central to the Theravada teachings and in fact is important to all branches of Buddhism?..?...at least I think they all include it.
I know, but I am looking for a practical way to get there
chownah wrote:I can not overly state how important having no doctrine of self is to my practice. Not only can it help conquer the fear of death but it also can help on controlling or eliminating anger, greed, etc........and these benefits come way before reaching enlightenment.......I would say that having no doctrine of self would be such a benefit to most people that they would value the Buddha dhamma just for that alone and not even worry about enlightenment.
chownah
P.S. I just saw your mention of "non-existence of the I"........that is exactly what having no doctrine of self is all about.....I think you are on the right track....don't worry about enlightenment.....just go learn about the non-existence of the I as it will assuredly help you on your search for enlightenment too.
chownah
According to my Zen master, understanding that there is no "I" is actually what enlightenment is about.