Myanmar again, but from the other end.

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Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby pilgrim » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:50 am

There is a locked thread where we mostly berated ourselves as Buddhists for the violence in Myanmar. But i'd like to look at it from a different perspective. What if the threat to Buddhist culture in Asia is real. What do we do? Are pacificism and extinction the only possible alternatives?
http://www.humanevents.com/2013/08/01/u ... -nonsense/
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby lyndon taylor » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:44 am

If you want to talk about a Muslim threat to Buddhists in Bangaladesh or even India, you might have some point, But Muslim threat in Myamyar is just not credible, they have a police force, they have a military, both Buddhist. I don't see the threat, sorry But your arguement is just why the other thread was shut down, intolerance rared its ugly head.......
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:04 am

If there's one thing I cannot stand it's intolerance. :hug:

The author's article is Jewish, perhaps that makes him more sensitive to the threat posed by Muslims?

IMO intolerance and racism pose a far greater threat to Buddhism in Burma than do Muslims, whether they be long-term residents of Burma like the Rohinga, or the illegal immigrants who crossed the border from Bangladesh.
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby Dan74 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:06 pm

I think we have a two-pronged movement to radicalise Muslims now. One is from the side of the fundamentalists, like bin Laden, the other is from the Westerners who paint them all with the same broad brush and through this prejudice and biased foreign policy provide plenty of ammunition to the hate-preachers.
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby pilgrim » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:38 pm

There is no dispute that the mob attack is a result of intolerance. But Myanmar has 135 linguistic groups and communities of Hindus and Christians far larger than the Muslims. Yet it is just this one community that breaks the tolerance of the Burmese. To dismiss the conflict simply as the result of intolerance seems too simplistic and does not offer solutions to the problem. What alternative would you suggest other than point at the intolerance of the Burmese?
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby Mr Man » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:58 pm

pilgrim wrote:There is no dispute that the mob attack is a result of intolerance. But Myanmar has 135 linguistic groups and communities of Hindus and Christians far larger than the Muslims. Yet it is just this one community that breaks the tolerance of the Burmese. To dismiss the conflict simply as the result of intolerance seems too simplistic and does not offer solutions to the problem. What alternative would you suggest other than point at the intolerance of the Burmese?


What is the problem?
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby pilgrim » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:10 pm

Mr Man wrote:
What is the problem?

Since last year there has been inter-religious conflicts between Buddhists and Muslims in Myanmar where the former has been the aggressors. Just google the key words - its been in the news quite a bit.
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby dagon » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:28 pm

pilgrim wrote:There is no dispute that the mob attack is a result of intolerance. But Myanmar has 135 linguistic groups and communities of Hindus and Christians far larger than the Muslims. Yet it is just this one community that breaks the tolerance of the Burmese. To dismiss the conflict simply as the result of intolerance seems too simplistic and does not offer solutions to the problem. What alternative would you suggest other than point at the intolerance of the Burmese?


ignorance and intolerance is what is behind the article
some of the responses is the lock thread were exactly the same

If you need to point the finger at some of the causes of the conflicts maybe you need to start with an examination of European colonial rule, and the effects of climate change driven by greed in the developed countries.

The day that Buddhist argue that killing is OK then we have abandoned core beliefs that extend to a denial of karma, a belief in permanence .... In which case we have ended this period of Buddhism.

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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby Mr Man » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:46 pm

pilgrim wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
What is the problem?

Since last year there has been inter-religious conflicts between Buddhists and Muslims in Myanmar where the former has been the aggressors. Just google the key words - its been in the news quite a bit.


So Buddhists have been aggressors in Myanmar? Do you think they have been justified?

With reference to you earlier post "Yet it is just this one community that breaks the tolerance of the Burmese" - Is that historically correct?
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby pilgrim » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:46 pm

No one is advocating that Buddhists kill. I'll be meeting a group of people soon regarding the Time Magazine article and the question will arise on how Buddhists should react in situations where they perceive a threat to their community and culture. I was hopeful of offering something more useful than be tolerant and just suck it up. But, yea...the mods can close this thread too.
Last edited by pilgrim on Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby dagon » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:58 pm

pilgrim wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
What is the problem?

Since last year there has been inter-religious conflicts between Buddhists and Muslims in Myanmar where the former has been the aggressors. Just google the key words - its been in the news quite a bit.


this may help to broaden your perspective

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/co ... ters/burma

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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby Mr Man » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:02 pm

pilgrim wrote:No one is advocating that Buddhists kill. I'll be meeting a group of people soon regarding the Time Magazine article and the question will arise on how Buddhists should react in situations where they perceive a threat to their community and culture. I was hopeful of offering something more useful than be tolerant and just suck it . But, yea...the mods can close this thread too.


Is there a real threat to their community & culture that has recently arisen?

It really isn't possible to address a problem until we know what it really is.
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby dagon » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:49 pm

Burma is a federation of 5 states it has since been called a union. For most of the last 50 years it has been held together by violence and the gun. The turning point (IMHO) was when the monks publicly walked past the government and refused to accept Dana from them in repudiation of the government’s actions.

There are those who wish to see the state remain as one, there are those who want independence for their own areas, and there are those who will use violence to get what they want. The country need reconciliation – compassion and loving kindness would be a good starting point. The country needs leaders who believe in the Dhamma and act accordingly. The real enemy is within as is the case will all of us who have not developed sufficient enlightenment.

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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby pulga » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:04 pm

pilgrim wrote: What do we do? Are pacificism and extinction the only possible alternatives?


Good article. I think something can be done, but it must be pursued with a good deal more tact and care than what has been put forth up until now.

I can't speak for Burma, because I've never lived there. But having lived in Sri Lanka I know how utterly distorted the views of Westerners can be compared to the actual conflicts these societies are going through on the ground. There's a tendency to paint such conflicts in black and white, to keep things simple, from our own secure vantage point.
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby dagon » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:13 pm

pulga wrote:
pilgrim wrote: What do we do? Are pacificism and extinction the only possible alternatives?


Good article. I think something can be done, but it must be pursued with a good deal more tact and care than what has been put forth up until now.

I can't speak for Burma, because I've never lived there. But having lived in Sri Lanka I know how utterly distorted the views of Westerners can be compared to the actual conflicts these societies are going through on the ground. There's a tendency to paint such conflicts in black and white, to keep things simple, from our own secure vantage point.


Bad article

But i can't speak for all the Burmese peoples (yes PEOPLES) - i was born there and have followed what has happened for the last 50 years. i still have relatives there (Buddhist and Hindu)

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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby pulga » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:51 pm

dagon wrote: The country need reconciliation – compassion and loving kindness would be a good starting point. The country needs leaders who believe in the Dhamma and act accordingly. The real enemy is within as is the case will all of us who have not developed sufficient enlightenment.


Very true. But both sides - or all sides for that matter - need to be more tolerant and flexible when dealing with one another: the goal being a civically egalitarian society. It's disconcerting when the Western media takes sides in such conflicts.

I'm just curious, are Muslims in Myanmar civically governed under their own set of Islamic laws as they are in Sri Lanka?
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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby dagon » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:16 pm

pulga wrote:
dagon wrote: The country need reconciliation – compassion and loving kindness would be a good starting point. The country needs leaders who believe in the Dhamma and act accordingly. The real enemy is within as is the case will all of us who have not developed sufficient enlightenment.


Very true. But both sides need to be more tolerant and flexible when dealing with one another: the goal being a civically egalitarian society. It's disconcerting when the Western media takes sides in such conflicts.

I'm just curious, are Muslims in Myanmar civically governed under their own set of Islamic laws as they are in Sri Lanka?


The media does as the media does.

If we are, or aspire to be Buddhist then the only side that we should be on is the side of Buddhist ethics, the Dhamma - that is not being intolerant or ignorant. What Buddha taught was understanding and truth.

In answer to you question - no that are not allowed their own laws BUT the government did make laws that applied to them. i am not sure which still apply.

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Re: Myanmar again, but from the other end.

Postby dagon » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:51 pm

This article may be of interest to those who actually want to try and understand the situation in Burma

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... buses.html

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