More troubling news

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More troubling news

Postby alan » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:57 am

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Re: More troubling news

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:24 am

Greetings,

Sad that anyone would do this, let alone drag the Triple Gem down with them...

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: More troubling news

Postby SDC » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:17 am

He isn't a monk and is proving he knows nothing of what the Buddha taught. Sad.
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Re: More troubling news

Postby householder » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:21 am

Just to give you a snapshot of the prevailing view amongst 'leading' 'intellectuals' here. The situation is really quite despairing and is set to get worse.

http://elevenmyanmar.com/national/2544- ... -terrorist
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Re: More troubling news

Postby alan » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:59 pm

This is where It would be nice to have a central authority who spoke for Theravada. Someone with power needs to stop this.
Is there a better example of the decay of Buddhism in Asia?
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Re: More troubling news

Postby binocular » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:06 pm

On the other hand, if the "radical Buddhists" give up, and Burma becomes a Muslim country in a few decades, then who will be to blame?
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Re: More troubling news

Postby lyndon taylor » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:13 pm

Muslims and buddhists have lived peacefully together in some of these countries for hundreds of years, if they get rid of all the muslims, who's going to butcher their meat?????
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: More troubling news

Postby alan » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:25 pm

Ouch, and ouch. That's me being pained by two ignorant comments.
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Re: More troubling news

Postby Coyote » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:36 pm

Anyone in the UK hear the thought for the day on BBC radio 4 today? I only half heard it but the basic message seemed to be that we can't dismiss radical monks as being "not Buddhist" and that we must take responsibility for the fact that this is the case.
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Re: More troubling news

Postby binocular » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:54 pm

Coyote wrote:Anyone in the UK hear the thought for the day on BBC radio 4 today? I only half heard it but the basic message seemed to be that we can't dismiss radical monks as being "not Buddhist" and that we must take responsibility for the fact that this is the case.

It seems that some people are very much invested in maintaining a rosy picture of life in this world, and so think that nice and peaceful actions are always the most effective ones, regardless of whom or what one is dealing with.

If this is true, than the underlying problem is probably a lot bigger than can be solved in a forum conversation.
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Re: More troubling news

Postby householder » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:05 pm

Can't get R4 here unless I use a VPN, which slows it all down :( Agreed, you can't just dismiss the monks as 'not Buddhist' (which I think I did when all this first started). This issue appears to be polarising the various Sangha groups.

One also needs to look at the much larger political forces and interests at play here.

It's a horrendously complex situation, particularly on the ground, and has roots that precede independence. All this isn't new and won't be going away anytime soon - it's institutionalised and ingrained over generations.

Anyone else share the view that radical Buddhists, who are so keen to 'protect' 'Buddhism' (and to be honest I sometimes can't tell whether they're trying to protect the institution of Burmese Buddhism or the dhamma) are, in fact, inadvertently participating in or perpetuating the causes of the decline of the dhamma that they're so afraid of in the first place through manifestation of unskilful actions of body, speech and mind to counter this perceived 'threat'?

Speaking of the perceived threat of outbreeding, any evidence of a concerted effort of this in the country beyond conjecture? The Muslim groups seem pretty disparate to me (and for the record I would not support Islamisation or any other 'isation' of a religion on people, including Buddhism in all its varieties). binocular, to be clear, are you supporting the actions of the rioters or the promotion of anti-Islamic fervor and boycotting?
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Re: More troubling news

Postby lyndon taylor » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:24 pm

I Know in communist Tibet they have a sort of state sponsored "buddhism" in the monasteries, communist infiltrators enlist as monks and report other monks for anti communist views, Its hard to know if any real Buddhist teachings survive in this setting other than appearances, so if Buddhist monks in Tibet were attacking muslim tribe members, I wouldn't jump to call it Tibetan Buddhists vs Muslim, I would tend to think it more Tibetan communists fighting Muslims.

I know Burma is reported as a communist government, and communism does not permit the free expression of religion, including Buddhism, is it possible these are not real Buddhist monks who called for war, but communist infiltrators dressed as monks calling for war, I don't know, does anyone else??
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: More troubling news

Postby householder » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:29 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:I Know in communist Tibet they have a sort of state sponsored "buddhism" in the monasteries, communist infiltrators enlist as monks and report other monks for anti communist views, Its hard to know if any real Buddhist teachings survive in this setting other than appearances, so if Buddhist monks in Tibet were attacking muslim tribe members, I wouldn't jump to call it Tibetan Buddhists vs Muslim, I would tend to think it more Tibetan communists fighting Muslims.

I know Burma is reported as a communist government, and communism does not permit the free expression of religion, including Buddhism, is it possible these are not real Buddhist monks who called for war, but communist infiltrators dressed as monks calling for war, I don't know, does anyone else??


That's one of the allegations, also that this U Wirathu is a scapegoat/fall guy for a wider political power play. However having spoken with a monks here I would fairly confidently say are not government spies, the anti-Muslim sentiment is quite strong in elements of the Sangha.
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Re: More troubling news

Postby Hickersonia » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:31 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:I know Burma is reported as a communist government

While I cannot confirm or dispute with any facts on this matter, I didn't think that Burma was Communist... Who reports it as such, if you don't mind my asking?
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Re: More troubling news

Postby lyndon taylor » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:43 pm

You must forgive me, I'm running on memory here, but all the media in The USA as I remember it has been saying Burma was taken over by communists many years ago, its certainly not a Buddhist dictatorship, and that this lady in the opposition, i can't spell her name so I won't try, was a buddhist nun, imprisoned for promoting Buddhism and freedom, now it seems shes no longer a nun, and now how could she ever have been a nun as they didn't have nuns in South East Thervada Asia that long ago. Now of course you can't believe everything in the media, but that's my recollection, corrections??/ Please.

Well all I can get off Google is there have been a lot of communists fighting in Burma, having and not having part in the government, a lot of alliances with China, though technically the dictatorship is not called communist, we need an expert to speak, because the wikepedia article is very confusing.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: More troubling news

Postby chownah » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:51 am

lyndon taylor wrote:You must forgive me, I'm running on memory here, but all the media in The USA as I remember it has been saying Burma was taken over by communists many years ago, its certainly not a Buddhist dictatorship, and that this lady in the opposition, i can't spell her name so I won't try, was a buddhist nun, imprisoned for promoting Buddhism and freedom, now it seems shes no longer a nun, and now how could she ever have been a nun as they didn't have nuns in South East Thervada Asia that long ago. Now of course you can't believe everything in the media, but that's my recollection, corrections??/ Please.

Well all I can get off Google is there have been a lot of communists fighting in Burma, having and not having part in the government, a lot of alliances with China, though technically the dictatorship is not called communist, we need an expert to speak, because the wikepedia article is very confusing.

I don't know why you are so confused. I looked at the Wikipedia article on Burma and read through the history part and found no mention of communism at all....clearly a military junta has been in charge.....I don't know how you came up with "communist". I think your recollections are inaccurate throughout and best start from scratch and build a new database.
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Re: More troubling news

Postby cooran » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:19 am

Hello Lyndon,

Please check your facts before posting!
Here is what most people would know about this greatly admired woman.

Aung San Suu Kyi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San_Suu_Kyi

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Re: More troubling news

Postby Vern Stevens » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:20 am

There are two interesting documentaries on Burma which give some background and current info on the struggles. One is called Burma VJ and the other is called They Call It Myanmar. I think either or both may be available on Netflix.
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Re: More troubling news

Postby householder » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:51 am

binocular wrote:On the other hand, if the "radical Buddhists" give up, and Burma becomes a Muslim country in a few decades, then who will be to blame?


Do you believe there is a concerted campaign to Islamise the country (personally I don't see evidence of this, and would agree with reasonable and non-violent efforts to oppose it if there was), and do you support the tactics currently being used to counter this perceived threat?
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Re: More troubling news

Postby lyndon taylor » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:49 pm

chownah wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:You must forgive me, I'm running on memory here, but all the media in The USA as I remember it has been saying Burma was taken over by communists many years ago, its certainly not a Buddhist dictatorship, and that this lady in the opposition, i can't spell her name so I won't try, was a buddhist nun, imprisoned for promoting Buddhism and freedom, now it seems shes no longer a nun, and now how could she ever have been a nun as they didn't have nuns in South East Thervada Asia that long ago. Now of course you can't believe everything in the media, but that's my recollection, corrections??/ Please.

Well all I can get off Google is there have been a lot of communists fighting in Burma, having and not having part in the government, a lot of alliances with China, though technically the dictatorship is not called communist, we need an expert to speak, because the wikepedia article is very confusing.



I don't know why you are so confused. I looked at the Wikipedia article on Burma and read through the history part and found no mention of communism at all....clearly a military junta has been in charge.....I don't know how you came up with "communist". I think your recollections are inaccurate throughout and best start from scratch and build a new database.
chownah


My sincere apologies for being so misinformed, here is a link to the wikepedia article on communism in Burma which I found so confusing;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Burma
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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