S.N Goenka

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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby convivium » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:28 pm

"ignore" was in scare quotes because he knew these teachings.
he rules out a lot of teachings in the suttas. that is uncontroversial.
i think your issue might be that you have no background in the movement.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:41 pm

Do They teach the cultivation of metta in the Goenka movement?
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby convivium » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:44 pm

yes, as a distinctly auxiliary practice.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:46 pm

Greetings,

convivium wrote:he rules out a lot of teachings in the suttas. that is uncontroversial.

I don't think that's a particularly good way to put it personally.

He does restrict the scope of the defined technique to certain aspects of the Buddha's teachings, and he does expect practitioners to adhere to the technique during the retreats, but that doesn't mean he "rules out" teachings... they're just out of scope for the technique presented. I've not seen a teacher who teaches everything, so it's natural that a teacher will pick and collate different aspects, and it's equally natural that the aspects that worked for them personally (or in this case, that worked for U Ba Khin) are what's included in the presentation.

I think it's also quite likely that some of the aspects which are out of scope of the technique are some of those which are less compatible with a secular presentation of vipassana. Recollecting the qualities of the Buddha or the Sangha for example, is going to restrict the more universal appeal of a technique which is not formally aligned to any religious denomination.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:53 pm

convivium wrote:yes, as a distinctly auxiliary practice.

In my estimation that is a powerful practice which should have the effect of supporting a healthy sense of self worth. I think there is Sutta material to support a practice which includes insight cultivation in conjunction metta practice as a complete path. Not that I am endorsing Goenka.

Im just curious to see valuable discourse here.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby convivium » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:55 pm

you're right. they don't suggest you stick with metta more than 10 minutes or so after each practice. don't get me wrong, i had profound metta experiences after retreats or services, and i practiced it twice a day after daily sittings for years. but it wasn't enough and it confused me for a long time why we were even practicing metta, given the rest of the teachings
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby knighter » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:57 pm

Wow

I thought people on here would be a little more respectful to another persons path!
Ive been on many s.n.goenka vipassana 10 course and can i just say the harder the course
the more work you would have been doing,i find all course tough as meditation is not a breeze.
Its a very active mediation im talking through experience.
Im not here to argue but please if you find something not to your taste
have a little more resect for other people who may walk the dhamma life through
vippassana.
Vipassana is the mediation taught by the first buddha
The first buddha was not buddhist he wanted every human to come out of suffering
not just buddhist.
Please, i ask for a little more creative writing when you find vipassana unhelpful on your path.
with loving kindness
Be happy
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby makarasilapin » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:02 am

He does restrict the scope of the defined technique to certain aspects of the Buddha's teachings


for me, a good teacher would open up the technique to the entire scope of the Buddha's teachings - allowing for active participation, exploration, creativity, ingenuity, etc..
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:08 am

Greetings makarasilapin,

makarasilapin wrote:
He does restrict the scope of the defined technique to certain aspects of the Buddha's teachings

for me, a good teacher would open up the technique to the entire scope of the Buddha's teachings - allowing for active participation, exploration, creativity, ingenuity, etc..

And if you met with Mr. Goenka himself and sought further instruction that may very well be what he would do.

However the structure of the retreats, and the international nature of the organisation means that attendees are dependent upon local Assistant Teachers, and if the AT I encountered on my Goenka retreat was anything to go by, I think I'd rather stick to Goenka's generic video-based instructions than allow the AT (who may or may not himself even be Buddhist) to facilitate "active participation, exploration, creativity, ingenuity, etc.".

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby makarasilapin » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:13 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings makarasilapin,

makarasilapin wrote:
He does restrict the scope of the defined technique to certain aspects of the Buddha's teachings

for me, a good teacher would open up the technique to the entire scope of the Buddha's teachings - allowing for active participation, exploration, creativity, ingenuity, etc..

And if you met with Mr. Goenka himself and sought further instruction that may very well be what he would do.

However the structure of the retreats, and the international nature of the organisation means that attendees are dependent upon local Assistant Teachers, and if the AT I encountered on my Goenka retreat was anything to go by, I think I'd rather stick to Goenka's generic video-based instructions than allow the AT (who may or may not himself even be Buddhist) to facilitate "active participation, exploration, creativity, ingenuity, etc.".

Metta,
Retro. :)


lol, for sure...but once Goenka dies all we'll be left with are generic video-based instructions and Assistant Teachers who we'd rather not allow to facilitate "active participation, exploration, creativity, ingenuity, etc.".
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby knighter » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:14 am

Hello there

makarasilapin thats your opinion
with metta
Be happy
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby greggorious » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:16 am

I didn't mean for this thread to become so argumentative. I was thinking of going on one of his 10 day retreats, and also want to go on a retreat at Amaravati in London. I like the fact that Theravada retreats are often free of charge, that seems almost Bodhisattva territory :smile:
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby makarasilapin » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:21 am

knighter wrote:Hello there

makarasilapin thats your opinion
with metta
Be happy
knighter


lol, i know it's my opinion. we're all sharing our opinions.

i remember asking an assistant teacher [one-on-one in a tiny little cubicle, mind you] about how to deal with the pain in my legs. he told me that it might not be just physical pain and proceeded to tell me a story about how he was caught masturbating by his mother when he was a young boy and that this memory often caused him the physical pain he was experiencing in meditation. he was trying to teach me about sankhara. it was one of the most awkward moments of my life.

to have assistant teachers all over the world teach people dhamma you better make sure they have the ability to teach, aren't socially inept, and have a solid understanding of it with demonstrated ability.
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby knighter » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:22 am

Hello there

greggorious My dhamma friend
im sure you would gain much from a 10 day course
and id love to see your written experience on this
post.
much metta
Be happy
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby makarasilapin » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:23 am

greggorious wrote:I didn't mean for this thread to become so argumentative. I was thinking of going on one of his 10 day retreats, and also want to go on a retreat at Amaravati in London. I like the fact that Theravada retreats are often free of charge, that seems almost Bodhisattva territory :smile:


man, just go to Amravati!
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby knighter » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:24 am

Hello there

you seem really quite angry makarasilapin
I used to get like that before i completed a
10 day s.n. goenka vipassana course.
Be happy
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby Prasadachitta » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:27 am

makarasilapin wrote:
greggorious wrote:I didn't mean for this thread to become so argumentative. I was thinking of going on one of his 10 day retreats, and also want to go on a retreat at Amaravati in London. I like the fact that Theravada retreats are often free of charge, that seems almost Bodhisattva territory :smile:


man, just go to Amravati!


I have close friends who practice regularly at Amravati and on the basis of what they say I would recommend getting teachings there.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby Prasadachitta » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:31 am

knighter wrote:Hello there

you seem really quite angry makarasilapin
I used to get like that before i completed a
10 day s.n. goenka vipassana course.
Be happy
knighter



Makarasilapin does not seem angry to me. He/She is just conveying her/his experience.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby knighter » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:32 am

Hello there

sorry greggorious i ment to add this
i'd go on both retreats,
for sure.
why go on one if you can go on two.
vipassana is donation only.
Be happy
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Re: S.N Goenka

Postby knighter » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:33 am

Hello there

Prasadachitta it was a joke
just keeping things light hearted.
Be happy
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