Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby barcsimalsi » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:30 pm

I have a hard time understanding what is "craving for non-existence". If one does not want to exist, how is it relate to craving? It is like implying if one says one does not want food thus one is craving for non-food, how does this makes sense?

Plus, if birth is suffering, suppose non-existence is free from suffering. I can't see any difference between the end of one's birth and the end of one's existence?

The Nikaya seems to be very evasive on the question of whether a person who attained Nirvana still exist or not after death so i hope any members here can help out my question above, thanks in advance.
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:43 pm

Craving for non-existence can mean not wanting to live, or not live after death, but also it can mean general aversion

For example not wanting a hangover, craving for the non-existence of a hangover

So it basically means aversion
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:51 pm

Plus, if birth is suffering, suppose non-existence is free from suffering. I can't see any difference between the end of one's birth and the end of one's existence?


From my understanding of the suttas the point is to stop giving birth to "I am", that is to stop clinging to, and identifying with, that which changes, causes dukkha and is not self

When we do that there is the deathless as there is no identifying with that which ages and falls apart (body, feeling, perception, thoughts and counciousness) "you" aren't reckoned in terms of that (body, feeling etc) ... I am not that, this is not my self etc

It seems what you are doing is identifying with the body, or feeling etc and taking a view of annihilationism. That is when this body ceases, "I" will cease, and taking Buddhism at aiming at that, which it isn't :)

Your view of death being an end is also not self, as are all view points and opinions
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:59 pm

The Nikaya seems to be very evasive on the question of whether a person who attained Nirvana still exist or not after death so i hope any members here can help out my question above, thanks in advance.


Any attempt to "locate" an arahant after death throws you straight back into Clinging, into views of self or no self, straight back into a net of views and opinions etc, just as trying to locate an arahant when they are alive does
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby mirco » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:57 pm

SarathW wrote:According to Buddhist stories, that Buddha descended from the Deva world (heaven) to this earth to attain Nirvana. Is it possible that we are here for the same reason?

I think it is. For sure.
Stepping up back into the Deva realms, where we came from or attaining Nibbana.
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby Arjan Dirkse » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:13 pm

Yes. No. Maybe.

I think life doesn't come equipped with pre-determined purpose. Purpose is something you need to give it, now that you have this life, what do you do with it?
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby Kusala » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:13 am

SarathW wrote:According to Buddhist stories, that Buddha descended from the Deva world (heaven) to this earth to attain Nirvana.
Is it possible that we are here for the same reason?


Samsara is void of reason...

Image
Image

Homage to the Buddha
Thus indeed, is that Blessed One: He is the Holy One, fully enlightened, endowed with clear vision and virtuous conduct, sublime, the Knower of the worlds, the incomparable leader of men to be tamed, the teacher of gods and men, enlightened and blessed.

Homage to the Teachings
The Dhamma of the Blessed One is perfectly expounded; to be seen here and now; not delayed in
time; inviting one to come and see; onward leading (to Nibbana); to be known by the wise, each for himself.
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby SarathW » Wed May 14, 2014 1:55 am

Some thing relevant to this topic:
===========
Venerable Sariputta’s questions are on thoughts and concepts. Let us
now try to translate the above catechism.
"With what as object, Samiddhi, do concepts and thoughts arise in
a man?" - "With name-and-form as object, venerable sir."
"But where, Samiddhi, do they assume diversity?" - "In the elements,
venerable sir."
"But from what, Samiddhi, do they arise?" - "They arise from
contact, venerable sir."
"But on what, Samiddhi, do they converge?" - "They converge on
feeling, venerable sir."
"But what, Samiddhi, is at their head?" - "They are headed by
concentration, venerable sir."
"But by what, Samiddhi, are they dominated?" - "They are dominated
by mindfulness, venerable sir."
"But what, Samiddhi, is their highest point?" - "Wisdom is their
highest point, venerable sir."
"But what, Samiddhi, is their essence?" - "Deliverance is their essence,
venerable sir."
"But in what, Samiddhi, do they get merged?" - "They get merged
in the deathless, venerable sir."
Some noteworthy points emerge from this catechism. All concepts
and thoughts have name-and-form as their object. The eighteen
elements account for their diversity. They arise with contact. They
converge on feeling. They are headed by concentration. They are
dominated by mindfulness. Their acme or point of transcendence is
wisdom. Their essence is deliverance and they get merged in the
deathless. Be it noted that the deathless is a term for Nibbana. Therefore,
as we have stated above, everything has the potentiality to yield
the deathless, provided radical attention is ushered in.


P198
http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/file ... led_II.pdf
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby Denisa » Thu May 15, 2014 2:22 am

I think it's not a question of "why we are here?" but a question of "what we are doing with this rare and precious human life?"
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby Mkoll » Thu May 15, 2014 6:16 am

Kusala wrote:
SarathW wrote:According to Buddhist stories, that Buddha descended from the Deva world (heaven) to this earth to attain Nirvana.
Is it possible that we are here for the same reason?


Samsara is void of reason...

Image

That's a powerful picture...
Peace,
James
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby ancientbuddhism » Thu May 15, 2014 4:00 pm

Mkoll wrote:
Kusala wrote:
SarathW wrote:According to Buddhist stories, that Buddha descended from the Deva world (heaven) to this earth to attain Nirvana.
Is it possible that we are here for the same reason?


Samsara is void of reason...

Image

That's a powerful picture...


This image is from ISKCON. Their philosophical position on rebirth and saṃsāra is taken from
Gaudiya Vaishnavism. I think Vaishnavism, especially this form, came later than Buddhism. But you kinda get a sense that they were pulling water from the same well where rebirth mythology is concerned.
Katamo ca bhikkhave asaṅkhatagāmī maggo: samatho ca vipassanā ca. Ayaṃ vuccati bhikkhave asaṅkhatagāmī maggo.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the path leading to the unconditioned? Calm and insight. This, bhikkhus, is called the path leading to the unconditioned.” SN. 43.2 – Samathavipassanāsuttaṃ

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Postby Mkoll » Thu May 15, 2014 8:32 pm

ancientbuddhism wrote:But you kinda get a sense that they were pulling water from the same well where rebirth mythology is concerned.

Indeed.

And even bereft of any religious connotations, I've never seen a picture that shows every stage of a man's life, from birth to death. It really shows our mortality and how brief our journey here is.
Peace,
James
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