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No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:01 pm
by SarathW
I see that there is a trend, many people live in western countries are not believing in god. As Buddhist we do not believe in creator god but believe in other forms of Gods. To me it appears that westerners are moving from eternalism to nihilism, both of which are rejected by Buddha. If I have only two choices, I will chose etrenalism over nihilism. I think nihilism make do damage to the social fabrication. In my opinion theistic religions has made a great contribution to the society. May be religious leaders should take note of this factor.
I am sure Dhamma wheel is making a great contribution to the society by closing this gap.

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:12 pm
by Cittasanto
SarathW wrote:I see that there is a trend, many people live in western countries are not believing in god. As Buddhist we do not believe in creator god but believe in other forms of Gods. To me it appears that westerners are moving from eternalism to nihilism, both of which are rejected by Buddha. If I have only two choices, I will chose etrenalism over nihilism. I think nihilism make do damage to the social fabrication. In my opinion theistic religions has made a great contribution to the society. May be religious leaders should take note of this factor.
I am sure Dhamma wheel is making a great contribution to the society by closing this gap.
Hi Sarath,
What great contribution?

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:22 pm
by SarathW
Ok. Then I would say "a contribution" :)

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:26 pm
by Goofaholix
I think eternalism vs nihilism is quite a different topic from creator God vs no creator God.

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:26 pm
by Bhikkhu Pesala
In the opinion of many, these God-based religions did great damage to society, and are still doing great damage. And, from what I heard, there are too many cases of child sexual abuse among the Buddhist clergy, just as there are such reports in other religious orders.

Then there are the many wars waged in the name of religion due to false beliefs and bigotted views.

It may be much easier for the sceptical atheist or secular humanist to understand the Dhamma than for the devout follower of any religion (and that includes devout followers of Buddhism who are hypocrits).

Believing in an Omnipotent Creator God is quite different to believing in devas or ghosts, or nature spirits of various kinds. The crucial point is accepting full responsibility for one's own actions according to the teaching of Kammassakatta Sammādiṭṭhi. It doesn't matter too much what else you believe in or don't believe in, as long as you believe that you alone will inherit the results of volitional actions of body, speech, and thought done by yourself.

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:28 pm
by perkele
Cittasanto wrote:
SarathW wrote:I see that there is a trend, many people live in western countries are not believing in god. As Buddhist we do not believe in creator god but believe in other forms of Gods. To me it appears that westerners are moving from eternalism to nihilism, both of which are rejected by Buddha. If I have only two choices, I will chose etrenalism over nihilism. I think nihilism make do damage to the social fabrication. In my opinion theistic religions has made a great contribution to the society. May be religious leaders should take note of this factor.
I am sure Dhamma wheel is making a great contribution to the society by closing this gap.
Hi Sarath,
What great contribution?
SarathW wrote:Ok. Then I would say "a contribution" :)
It is unclear which of the supposed "great contributions" Cittasanto was questioning. That of theistic religions or that of DhammaWheel?


Edit:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:...
:goodpost:
Sadhu!

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:32 pm
by Polar Bear
perkele wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
SarathW wrote:I see that there is a trend, many people live in western countries are not believing in god. As Buddhist we do not believe in creator god but believe in other forms of Gods. To me it appears that westerners are moving from eternalism to nihilism, both of which are rejected by Buddha. If I have only two choices, I will chose etrenalism over nihilism. I think nihilism make do damage to the social fabrication. In my opinion theistic religions has made a great contribution to the society. May be religious leaders should take note of this factor.
I am sure Dhamma wheel is making a great contribution to the society by closing this gap.
Hi Sarath,
What great contribution?
SarathW wrote:Ok. Then I would say "a contribution" :)
It is unclear which of the supposed "great contributions" Cittasanto was questioning. That of theistic religions or that of DhammaWheel?
Given the topic I would imagine he was referring to theistic religions.

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:56 pm
by SarathW
Bahante Pesal: I know lot of people use religion to achieve their selfish motives. But it is not the fault of the religion.

Pakele: Sorry may be I did not get my English right. What I am saying is there is gap emerging with people are looking for answers to their questions. For example I see that there are lot of new members coming here as new Buddhist. I thought Dhamma wheel is a great resource for new seekers.

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:09 am
by Cittasanto
perkele wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
SarathW wrote:I see that there is a trend, many people live in western countries are not believing in god. As Buddhist we do not believe in creator god but believe in other forms of Gods. To me it appears that westerners are moving from eternalism to nihilism, both of which are rejected by Buddha. If I have only two choices, I will chose etrenalism over nihilism. I think nihilism make do damage to the social fabrication. In my opinion theistic religions has made a great contribution to the society. May be religious leaders should take note of this factor.
I am sure Dhamma wheel is making a great contribution to the society by closing this gap.
Hi Sarath,
What great contribution?
SarathW wrote:Ok. Then I would say "a contribution" :)
It is unclear which of the supposed "great contributions" Cittasanto was questioning. That of theistic religions or that of DhammaWheel?


Edit:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:...
:goodpost:
Sadhu!
I meant the former, partly for the reasons Bhante mentioned, and partly for reasons not.

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:34 am
by SarathW
Oops now I undestood your question. I repeated "Great contribution" in two places! :)

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:56 am
by manas
Hi Sarath,

I have heard many times from Christians that they are basically 'saved' due to their belief in a blood-sacrifice enacted thousands of years back (torture, death and divine resurrection of Jesus). Apparently this is the main, overriding factor in their salvation - and no matter how many good works they do, no matter how kind they are to others, if they don't also believe in that 'miracle of christ's death and resurrection' they will end up getting eternally barbecued, boiled & roasted in hell, with no hope ever of any respite.

As I see it, this belief engenders much fear in people (unreasonable of course, but then they don't know that), and furthermore absolves them of the responsibility for their own actions, in the sense that instead of 'as I sow, so shall I reap' (which sounds fair enough), they now believe, 'however I sow, so long as I believe in the miracle of christ's death & resurrection, I will be ok in the end'. That's scary stuff. Just see how the Catholic Church has 'dealt' with the sex offenders in their ranks, and you will see one of the results of this faulty way of thinking.

:anjali:

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:14 am
by pilgrim
manas wrote:Hi Sarath,

I have heard many times from Christians that they are basically 'saved' due to their belief in a blood-sacrifice enacted thousands of years back (torture, death and divine resurrection of Jesus). Apparently this is the main, overriding factor in their salvation - and no matter how many good works they do, no matter how kind they are to others, if they don't also believe in that 'miracle of christ's death and ressurection' they will end up getting eternally barbecued, boiled & roasted in hell, with no hope ever of any respite.
Christian apologists are now back-pedalling on the threat that hell is a place of fire and brimstone,for example the popular book "The Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel. Now they say that Hell is "separation from God". But the way I see it, if given the choice, I would like to be separated eternally from a fascist, violent god. So I would choose Hell as their version of heaven would be hell for me.

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:55 am
by m0rl0ck
Theism is probably responsible for more human misery and death than anything except bacteria and viruses.
It should be outlawed. Read the news. Read some history for christs sake.

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:40 am
by Cittasanto
m0rl0ck wrote:Theism is probably responsible for more human misery and death than anything except bacteria and viruses.
It should be outlawed. Read the news. Read some history for christs sake.
I would argue political ambition done quite a good job of keeping up.

Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:05 am
by Mr Man
Cittasanto wrote:
m0rl0ck wrote:Theism is probably responsible for more human misery and death than anything except bacteria and viruses.
It should be outlawed. Read the news. Read some history for christs sake.
I would argue political ambition done quite a good job of keeping up.
Birth is the big enemy.