should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

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should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:37 am

i'm memorizing the satipatthana sutta and practicing it as well as learning jhana meditation. should i be learning lucid dreaming or is this a side track that will distract from my dhamma practice? i have some dhammic goals to practice in the dream world, but nonetheless, there is no such thing mentioned in the pali canon so i'm wondering if it's something i should be bothering with at all.
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby Ben » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:42 am

alan,

If you are practicing satipatthana then I reckon you have your work cut out for you. Keep in mind that Dhamma practice should be something that we can sustain day-in day-out for years and decades. Its a long-term project.
In time, you will naturally begin to develop greater awareness during sleep. That will happen as a natural bi-product of sustained effort on and off the cushion.
You may get to a point where you will be able to meditate while your body is resting in sleep mode.
Kind regards,

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:55 am

Ben wrote:alan,

If you are practicing satipatthana then I reckon you have your work cut out for you. Keep in mind that Dhamma practice should be something that we can sustain day-in day-out for years and decades. Its a long-term project.
In time, you will naturally begin to develop greater awareness during sleep. That will happen as a natural bi-product of sustained effort on and off the cushion.
You may get to a point where you will be able to meditate while your body is resting in sleep mode.
Kind regards,

Ben


sweet! thanks ben!
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:56 pm

Try to remember your dreams when you awake in the morning. We tend to have similar dream patterns, so that you might be more aware the next time you dream.

Do you dream in color? I find that asking this question while you dream helps a lot. If you start noticing that you are aware of the colors in your dreams, you become more aware while dreaming.

(By the way, nice avatar. Is that Siddhatha displaying his archery skills?)
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:21 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:Try to remember your dreams when you awake in the morning. We tend to have similar dream patterns, so that you might be more aware the next time you dream.

Do you dream in color? I find that asking this question while you dream helps a lot. If you start noticing that you are aware of the colors in your dreams, you become more aware while dreaming.

(By the way, nice avatar. Is that Siddhatha displaying his archery skills?)

Do you have lucid dreams? Thanks and yes its from a beautiful picture series ill post a link.
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby Ben » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:06 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:(By the way, nice avatar. Is that Siddhatha displaying his archery skills?)


I noticed it too. Unfortunately, his technique is all wrong and in the full-size picture you can see that there is something seriously wrong with his bow.
kind regards,

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:19 pm

alan... wrote:Do you have lucid dreams?


Sometimes. I look for the colors while I am dreaming and then it is like, 'eureka' I am aware of dreaming; at least it works most of the time. Most of the time I don't dream or maybe I am dreaming, but don't remember them. :tongue:

Ben wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:(By the way, nice avatar. Is that Siddhatha displaying his archery skills?)

I noticed it too. Unfortunately, his technique is all wrong and in the full-size picture you can see that there is something seriously wrong with his bow.


Now that you mention it, I see that too; it should have the string between the fingers.

Buddha was a leftie? Source? :tongue:
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby Digity » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:56 am

I have lucid dreams. When I first got them they would be of an evil nature...I felt like a demon was in my presence. However, they've changed and now they're much more neutral. For instance, just a few days ago I had a lucid dream where I saw patterns. All my lucid dreams now seem to be just seeing patterns...not sure why. Anyway, last time it happened I actually became mindful of it and was able to briefly change the image of the pattern into an image of the Buddha meditating. I tend to get freaked out when I start having lucid dreams and try to quickly wake myself up...I just find them weird and they kind of creep me out. However, I'm trying to control them more. It might be useful for when we pass away and if we're presented with images, etc...like we're in bardo....and can be mindful maybe it'll ultimately help us proceed forward correctly in the afterlife.
Samsara sucks.
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:30 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
alan... wrote:Do you have lucid dreams?


Sometimes. I look for the colors while I am dreaming and then it is like, 'eureka' I am aware of dreaming; at least it works most of the time. Most of the time I don't dream or maybe I am dreaming, but don't remember them. :tongue:

Ben wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:(By the way, nice avatar. Is that Siddhatha displaying his archery skills?)

I noticed it too. Unfortunately, his technique is all wrong and in the full-size picture you can see that there is something seriously wrong with his bow.


Now that you mention it, I see that too; it should have the string between the fingers.

Buddha was a leftie? Source? :tongue:


what is wrong with his technique and bow?

EDIT: i suppose the bow is not being bent backward which makes no sense. but his technique of where he has the arrow and how his fingers are is not the way most do it but that's the way some people do it in certain countries and styles. Image
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:32 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
alan... wrote:Do you have lucid dreams?


Sometimes. I look for the colors while I am dreaming and then it is like, 'eureka' I am aware of dreaming; at least it works most of the time. Most of the time I don't dream or maybe I am dreaming, but don't remember them. :tongue:

Ben wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:(By the way, nice avatar. Is that Siddhatha displaying his archery skills?)

I noticed it too. Unfortunately, his technique is all wrong and in the full-size picture you can see that there is something seriously wrong with his bow.


Now that you mention it, I see that too; it should have the string between the fingers.

Buddha was a leftie? Source? :tongue:


cool! there's a ton of techniques, it's great that you have a personal one as that is usually the best way to go.
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby tinhtan » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:34 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
Ben wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:(By the way, nice avatar. Is that Siddhatha displaying his archery skills?)

I noticed it too. Unfortunately, his technique is all wrong and in the full-size picture you can see that there is something seriously wrong with his bow.


Now that you mention it, I see that too; it should have the string between the fingers.

Buddha was a leftie? Source? :tongue:

and also the arrow head is not placed on the right side

maybe that's what the painter saw in the dream ? and in a dream everything may happens, what seems wrong when we are waken up, is not within the sublime material - the "one" can passed through the wall (dense material)...
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:56 am

tinhtan wrote:and also the arrow head is not placed on the right side

maybe that's what the painter saw in the dream ? and in a dream everything may happens, what seems wrong when we are waken up, is not within the sublime material - the "one" can passed through the wall (dense material)...


again, it depends on what school/country/style youre in, the arrow head can go on both sides depending on who is using the bow.
Last edited by alan... on Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:56 am

you know it also means resting?
it isn't necessarily meaning sleeping.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:05 am

Cittasanto wrote:you know it also means resting?
it isn't necessarily meaning sleeping.


what means resting?
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:29 am

alan... wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:you know it also means resting?
it isn't necessarily meaning sleeping.


what means resting?

relax
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:03 am

Cittasanto wrote:
alan... wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:you know it also means resting?
it isn't necessarily meaning sleeping.


what means resting?

relax


lol, i sounded like i don't speak english in that last post! what i meant was: "what do you mean by "it also means resting?""
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:04 am

alan... wrote:lol, i sounded like i don't speak english in that last post! what i meant was: "what do you mean by "it also means resting?""

I thought you were having a language freeze, but....

Words in pali can have a wide range of meaning when rendering them into english. and some words can mean two different but similar things depending upon the context (in english or pali)

If you look at the string of words in the satipatthana sutta it starts with three of the four postures and then has "sleep or awake" as the fourth. to me it suggests rest rather than sleep, or a light conscious rest (physical sleep yet the mind is awake), but not sleep which would have dreams. the second part (awake) would be more likely meditation in the lying down posture, or in a state where the rest of the description could happen (talking listening...).
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
alan... wrote:lol, i sounded like i don't speak english in that last post! what i meant was: "what do you mean by "it also means resting?""

I thought you were having a language freeze, but....

Words in pali can have a wide range of meaning when rendering them into english. and some words can mean two different but similar things depending upon the context (in english or pali)

If you look at the string of words in the satipatthana sutta it starts with three of the four postures and then has "sleep or awake" as the fourth. to me it suggests rest rather than sleep, or a light conscious rest (physical sleep yet the mind is awake), but not sleep which would have dreams. the second part (awake) would be more likely meditation in the lying down posture, or in a state where the rest of the description could happen (talking listening...).


oh yeah you're exactly right as far as i know. hence my question, lucid dreaming is not directly mentioned and it's more likely he only talked about what you're talking about, so i'm wondering if i should be working with dreams at all.
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:02 pm

alan... wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
alan... wrote:lol, i sounded like i don't speak english in that last post! what i meant was: "what do you mean by "it also means resting?""

I thought you were having a language freeze, but....

Words in pali can have a wide range of meaning when rendering them into english. and some words can mean two different but similar things depending upon the context (in english or pali)

If you look at the string of words in the satipatthana sutta it starts with three of the four postures and then has "sleep or awake" as the fourth. to me it suggests rest rather than sleep, or a light conscious rest (physical sleep yet the mind is awake), but not sleep which would have dreams. the second part (awake) would be more likely meditation in the lying down posture, or in a state where the rest of the description could happen (talking listening...).


oh yeah you're exactly right as far as i know. hence my question, lucid dreaming is not directly mentioned and it's more likely he only talked about what you're talking about, so i'm wondering if i should be working with dreams at all.

are you firmly established in a waking practice?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: should i be practicing lucid dreaming?

Postby alan... » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:16 am

Cittasanto wrote:are you firmly established in a waking practice?


yes. you said "...in a waking practice?" are there sleeping practices in theravada?
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