No Ajahn Chah

[DarwidHalim]

The teaching of Ajahn Chah about emptiness by far is the best teaching that is well accepted and consistent among all Buddhist schools including Mahayana and Vajrayana.

Ajahn Chah said:
I am always talking about things to develop and thing to give up, but really, THERE IS NOTHING TO DEVELOP AND NOTHING TO GIVE UP.

http://www.ajahnchah.org/pdf/no_ajahn_chah.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We learn Buddhism as if there is something in the future that we need to develop. We train so hard, constrain this and constraint that, just to find out there is actually nothing right from the start, nothing to constraint, right before we even know Buddhism.

A very interesting book right from the practitioner, instead of scholar.

[Dan74]

Yes.

It is vital, however, to remember that none of the great masters have arrived at this knowledge without "training hard, constraining this or that", etc

[DarwidHalim]

There is a difference in training hard to find out there is nothing there and training hard to find there is something extraordinary out there.

[Dan74]

Why not just train hard to find out what's there? Any preordained conclusion is a mind half-closed.

[DarwidHalim]

The answer for that question has been told - there is nothing out there.

Why keep searching for something which you can never find?

[Yana]

There is a difference in training hard to find out there is nothing there and training hard to find there is something extraordinary out there.

Yes ,when you train hard expecting to find something extraordinary you'd train harder than expecting to find nothing.

The other point i want to make is Why can't Nothingness be Extraordinary?After all it is the ultimate goal.And if a mere goal would require some amount of effort how much more one a big as this.

And don't try to tell me Enlightment is not a goal?If it wasn't people wouldn't take lifetimes practicing to reach this state.

I don't understand why people always focus on "there is really nothing to do .. nothing to do this and nothing to do that..we don't exist..we are empty"...yes i know that..but we're not freed yet from suffering..that means you need to get your empty self to sit and meditate..your empty self to study the dhamma..you don't just sit down thinking "i am nothingness..I don't exist...so there's really nothing to do"..this type of thinking would be more appropriate for Arahants who can now let go of Even their spiritual practices..as for the rest of us we need to make an effort.I mean the Buddha had to starve himself and discipline himself for lifetimes and we're just willing to not train harder because there is really nothing to do?Would The Buddha have pushed himself so hard to meditate under that Bodhi Tree if he knew that there was really nothing to do.Because he didn't exist he'd simply just go with the flow and relax looking at some flower.It's all good but that's not how he attained enlightmend.He attainment of enlightment was aided by sheer determination.

it's good to have the knowledge that we are all these things but as far as being practical you really need to summon every effort to motivate you in your practices.Including training hard for something extraordinary.

Like the story about the raft and the other shore.You need to Get There first before you let go of the raft.Not let it go now.If you do that?How will you get to the other shore?

[DarwidHalim]

This simile that we use this raft to cross the ocean to the next island, may be useful, but at the same time can also give problem.

We are actually already in the next island, but we don't know it. So, we take the raft to cross the ocean, but at the end you will actually come back to the same island right before you cross it. This simile is the one used in the school that emphasize the second part of Ajahn Chah statement - ....., but really, there is nothing to develop and nothing to give up.

This searching is a must do thing. If someone tell us, there is nothing, it is hard to get what it means by there is nothing when my eyes see so many things, my ears hear so many sound. The words of nothing is a dry word.

Someone who never eat orange, no matter how Buddha tell him the taste of orange, that person is exactly same with the person who never heard that definition of orange and never eat orange.

The description is simply a dry word. They can guess, but what they guess is absolutely speculation based on his interpretation of the description of that orange.

Knowing there is nothing there, it cut through all the unnecessary efforts to search something out there.

You will then focus solely to find out the true taste of orange, the true taste of nothing to develop and nothing to give up.

Suffering can only be stop if we know the true taste of nothing to develop and nothing to give up.

Work hard is definitely required, because we need to go against the flow of what we are holding now.

But without knowing where we are heading to, our hard work can actually disguise the old ignorant to the new form of ignorant.

Aiming for realizing there is nothing to develop and nothing to give up. This compass will bring your raft to the right place.

[ground]

Why not just train hard to find out what's there? Any preordained conclusion is a mind half-closed.

"to find out what's there" is already an implicit preordained (habitual) conclusion.

This may indicate the reason for "hard training"

[santa100]

Simply ask oneself whether one's able to penetrate the "non-self" insight every single moment of his/her daily life (especially when being exposed to wealth, power, fame, sex, or praise)? 100%? 50%? 20%? 1%? If it's 100%, then sure, no need to develop or give up anything. Any less than that, one'd better continue to work hard as Ven. Ananda put it best in the Brahmana Sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dan74]

"There" or "here" are conventions. What is it? What is this reality? What am I?

Any answer that is second-hand is not going to satisfy. And without this inquiry how can practice truly proceed?

[ground]

"There" or "here" are conventions. What is it? What is this reality? What am I?

Any answer that is second-hand is not going to satisfy. And without this inquiry how can practice truly proceed?

Again a lot of presuppositions or "preordained (habitual) conclusions". But there is no point argueing about it.

[Dan74]

Aplenty! But I wasn't arguing.

[ground]

No you were just expressing your opinion.

[kirk5a]

Aiming for realizing there is nothing to develop and nothing to give up. This compass will bring your raft to the right place.

No it won't. That's why Ajahn Chah was always talking about things to develop and things to give up.

[ground]

Beliefs and beliefs. Just rely on your experience. Thoughts of others do not have access to it although you may replace authentic experience by thoughts. What is good for one is bad for the other and vv.