Lay Buddhists and the end of sexual intercourse?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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DarwidHalim
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Re: Lay Buddhists and the end of sexual intercourse?

Post by DarwidHalim »

I have no more point to add here.

Let's do some relax exercises. :rofl:

:toast:
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I am not right nor wrong.
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ground
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Re: Lay Buddhists and the end of sexual intercourse?

Post by ground »

DarwidHalim wrote: :toast:
Alcohol should definitely be abandoned whereas sexual activity is hindering depending on the path one practices according to sutta pitaka. :smile:
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Jaidyn
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Re: Lay Buddhists and the end of sexual intercourse?

Post by Jaidyn »

DarwidHalim wrote:Renunciation has nothing to do with sexual intercourse.

You should be able to differentiate between action and the one that driving the action such as desire, attachment, etc.

[... and all the rest as written in this post on page 3 http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 40#p180128" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ]
:goodpost:
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ground
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Re: Lay Buddhists and the end of sexual intercourse?

Post by ground »

For your dispassionate consideration:
"In the same way, Magandiya, sensual pleasures in the past were painful to the touch, very hot & scorching; sensual pleasures in the future will be painful to the touch, very hot & scorching; sensual pleasures at present are painful to the touch, very hot & scorching; but when beings are not free from passion for sensual pleasures — devoured by sensual craving, burning with sensual fever — their faculties are impaired, which is why, even though sensual pleasures are actually painful to the touch, they have the skewed perception of 'pleasant.'

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Clinging to sensuality, to sensual ties,
seeing no blame in the fetter,
never will those tied up in the fetter
cross over the flood so great & wide.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
luisisrael
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Re: Lay Buddhists and the end of sexual intercourse?

Post by luisisrael »

Sex is suffering (1st truth)
But is sex cause for suffering? (2nd truth).

This first one we can find in the canon. But what about the second one?

It seems that the Buda clearly stated that wrong sex causes suffering. Like other people already said, it implys that there is a proper sex which does not cause suffering. And because there is such sex, Buda created the lay vows (otherwise there wouldn't be such vows).

So. For me it seems that the question here is not so much if lay people should abandon sex, but what sex to avoid (sexual misconduct).
Lay people should abandon sex if they wish to become monks (and, by doing so, they won't be lay people anymore, of course). Also they can abandon it if they see by themselves that it is useless and futile.

Otherwise, it is proper for lay people to have proper sex. And reading the canon, proper sex simply seems to mean not having sex with a underage or married woman (or man). Anything else?
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rowboat
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Re: Lay Buddhists and the end of sexual intercourse?

Post by rowboat »

It seems that the Buda clearly stated that wrong sex causes suffering. Like other people already said, it implys that there is a proper sex which does not cause suffering. And because there is such sex, Buda created the lay vows (otherwise there wouldn't be such vows).
Your spelling of "Buda" is properly spelled Buddha.

Thank-you.

:anjali:
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5
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manas
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Re: Lay Buddhists and the end of sexual intercourse?

Post by manas »

Sarva wrote:As a lay person, I am curious about the well being of a relationship between a couple in a relationship if there is indeed an ending of sexual intercourse through the practice of Theravada Buddhism. Sex can be considered to not only be for pleasure but have a positive role in mutual love, reproduction and for the benefit of a partner who is not on the Buddhist path. How literally should the following quote be understood and do you consider this always the case for those who bring mental fermenations to an end (Lay & Monks)?
“It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to engage in sexual intercourse.”
Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta
Hi sarva,

what follows will be my opinion, so I'm not claiming to represent what a Buddhist layperson ought to do here. But if I were in a relationship, and wanted to remain in that (out of love, respect, etc), but at the same time was trying to cultivate disenchantment from sex pleasure, I would make use of non-orgasmic sex. In my experience, the real 'hook' that addicts people to sex is orgasm, so if one can engage in lovemaking without it, one is still maintaining the closeness and loving contact, but without the disproportionately high blast of endorphins that is so disruptive to a mind that's trying to cultivate seclusion from sensual pleasures.

Taoist sexual practice (with no ejaculation) and Karezza (a calm, non-orgasmic practice) are two that spring to mind, that could be of assistance.

manas _/I\_
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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manas
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Re: Lay Buddhists and the end of sexual intercourse?

Post by manas »

luisisrael wrote: Otherwise, it is proper for lay people to have proper sex. And reading the canon, proper sex simply seems to mean not having sex with a underage or married woman (or man). Anything else?
It is allowable for a layperson to have sexual relations if the other is not in the forbidden category, but that isn't the same as saying it's encouraged. The Teaching points towards renunciation, and even a layperson can voluntarily undertake abstinence from sexual intercourse. Even a layperson can discover that there are disadvantages to sex pleasure, and that by gradually cleansing it out from one's life, one suffers less than before. But this is a challenging and long-term process, which is why the Buddha wisely allows laypersons sexual contact with certain restrictions, so that at least the worst kinds of unwholesome kamma are avoided.

manas _/I\_
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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