Unease with some burmese tradition students

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Sacha G
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Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:16 pm
Location: France

Unease with some burmese tradition students

Post by Sacha G »

Hello all
I wanted to share my thoughts on a growing feeling of unease I have with some reports of the western students of burmese vipassana tradition, for example Pa Auk Sayadaw.
I just listened to a so - called Caitlin reporting a (first?) 4 monts retreat, where she remembered her past lives...
here:
http://www.dhammaweb.net/paauk/USA-D5/P ... lin%29.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I hear of students reaching jhana in 3 months, and of some reaching stream-entry after a few months.
Also the book of Shaila Catherine, one of his students left me with a sense of unease, because she reports in a strangely "natural" way how it is to attain the sphere of neither perception nor non perception.
Same problem with Daniel Ingram and so on.
I don't say they didn't attaint these stages, I just stay three things are strange:
1°) The speed at which they attained them.
2°) The fact that they report it as something (relatively) easy
3) The fact that their attitude (tone of voice, litterary style, remarks) doesnt "radiate" much depth (which is contrary to the attainments they claim).

What do you think?

Sacha
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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cooran
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Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Unease with the burmese tradition students

Post by cooran »

Hello Sacha,

I would suggest that you talk ''to'' or ''with'' the person/s making such claims - not ''about'' them.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Goofaholix
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Re: Unease with some burmese tradition students

Post by Goofaholix »

Sacha G wrote: 1°) The speed at which they attained them.
2°) The fact that they report it as something (relatively) easy
3) The fact that their attitude (tone of voice, litterary style, remarks) doesnt "radiate" much depth (which is contrary to the attainments they claim).
I haven't had any experience of Pa Auk Sayadaw but I have attended a retreat with Shaila Catherine read her first book and am currently reading her second. I don't have any particular desire to switch from Insight to jhana practise so am objective I think.

Shaila is very clear in her books that different teachers measure the attainment of jhana at very different points, so really speed is really relative to where you set the goalposts. I think the main thing though is she implies it can be easy and relatively quick because many people, like myself, have felt for years that it's too hard and I can't do it. It's called encouragement and it's part of a teachers job.

I feel her attitude, tone of voice, literary style, remarks radiates a lot of depth, both in person and in her books.

I've found her books the clearest and most accessible explanation of jhana that I've come across, and more importantly the importance of insight is stressed and also explained clearly.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Jhana4
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Re: Unease with some burmese tradition students

Post by Jhana4 »

Two people in my sutta discussion group recently gave us a talk about their experience with the Jhanas.

It is possible to reach some jhanas quickly, according to them, though to master them ( get there when you want to be there, stay there when you want to stay, etc ) takes more time. One of them mentioned the Burmese dude you mentioned. She highly recommended him if you were between jobs because his meditation retreats are 24/7 for at least 3 months. That is a LOT of time and effort , I'm not surprised people get results
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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