Does Theravada believe in the Hindu pantheon?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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chownah
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Does Theravada believe in the Hindu pantheon?

Post by chownah »

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SN 6.1 PTS: S i 136 CDB i 231
Ayacana Sutta: The Request
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1997–2011
Excerpt:
"........
Then Brahma Sahampati, having known with his own awareness the line of thinking in the Blessed One's awareness, thought: "The world is lost! The world is destroyed! The mind of the Tathagata, the Arahant, the Rightly Self-awakened One inclines to dwelling at ease, not to teaching the Dhamma!" Then, just as a strong man might extend his flexed arm or flex his extended arm, Brahma Sahampati disappeared from the Brahma-world and reappeared in front of the Blessed One. ........"

Seems like Brahma Sahampati was a Hindu god but I don't really know....if this is correct then does this mean that people who believe in the literal truth of the Suttas also accept the gods of the HIndu pantheon?
chownah
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Travis
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Re: Does Theravada believe in the Hindu pantheon?

Post by Travis »

I think the thing to notice is that whenever there is an appearance of a god, deva, etc. there is a greater point being made than the existence of gods, devas, etc. People get really hung up on this and need to either blindly accept it as an article of faith, or summarily reject it out of a distaste for all things theistic or mystic. There is no teaching that I have come across that necessitates accepting or rejecting such views. Even with something like the rebirth in heavenly realms or hells, the aim of the teaching is awakening/cessation of suffering, not heavenly realms (or even rebirth for that matter). Whatever we are doing it is to get out of samsara, suffering, rebirth, heavenly realms, and hells with its gods, devas, pretas, and beliefs

Metta,
Travis
daverupa
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Re: Does Theravada believe in the Hindu pantheon?

Post by daverupa »

I think the subject here is not the Hindu pantheon, but rather the Brahmanical Vedic pantheon, although whether this clarification much matters to the answer to the question remains to be seen.

On that note, it seems to me that the orthodox position for Theravada is that devas do exist (along with yakkhas and other such beings), but that their attributes and powers are misunderstood by Vedic adherents. This is exemplified in the Brahmajala Sutta where the Buddha suggests that it is through a misunderstanding that Brahma thinks of himself as the creator, and that even Brahma will fall to other states:
40. "But sooner or later, bhikkhus, after the lapse of a long period, there comes a time when this world begins to expand once again. While the world is expanding, an empty palace of Brahmā appears. Then a certain being, due to the exhaustion of his life-span or the exhaustion of his merit, passes away from the Ābhassara plane and re-arises in the empty palace of Brahmā. There he dwells, mind made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the air, abiding in glory. And he continues thus for a long, long period of time.

41. "Then, as a result of dwelling there all alone for so long a time, there arises in him dissatisfaction and agitation, (and he yearns): 'Oh, that other beings might come to this place!' Just at that moment, due to the exhaustion of their life-span or the exhaustion of their merit, certain other beings pass away from the Ābhassara plane and re-arise in the palace of Brahmā, in companionship with him. There they dwell, mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the air, abiding in glory. And they continue thus for a long, long period of time.

42. "Thereupon the being who re-arose there first thinks to himself: 'I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Supreme Being, the Ordainer, the Almighty, the Father of all that are and are to be. And these beings have been created by me. What is the reason? Because first I made the wish: "Oh, that other beings might come to this place!" And after I made this resolution, now these beings have come.'
As Travis suggests, it seems to me also that the Buddha wishes to highlight the fact of samsara as being applicable to all beings, whereas most theists will say that their particular (idea of) divinity is above samsara.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
SamKR
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Re: Does Theravada believe in the Hindu pantheon?

Post by SamKR »

chownah wrote:
Seems like Brahma Sahampati was a Hindu god but I don't really know....if this is correct then does this mean that people who believe in the literal truth of the Suttas also accept the gods of the HIndu pantheon?
chownah
I think the concepts of Brahma in Hinduism and Buddha's teachings are very different. As a Hindu I never heard that there are many Brahmas in a single eon. Most Hindus (almost all?) know about only one Brahma (the creator God--one of the major Gods besides Bishnu (protector), Shiva (destructor) etc...), and only one Brahma Loka, as far as I know,. While in Buddhism there are many many Brahmas and one of them is Sahampati, and there are many Brahma Lokas. I never heard the name Sahampati in the Hindu world.
The Hindu cosmology and Buddhist cosmology are very different. Though there are a few similarities, for example Sakka is usually called Indra in Hinduism.
befriend
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Re: Does Theravada believe in the Hindu pantheon?

Post by befriend »

great post travis.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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