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Dhamma Ending Age - Dhamma Wheel

Dhamma Ending Age

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Will
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Dhamma Ending Age

Postby Will » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:05 pm

In Mahayana there are teachings about the symptoms of the end of the Dharma dispensation. After reading some here about this Dhammakaya group, I thought that sure fits in with Dharma Ending Era that Mahayana sutras report.

But, aside from the fact that the Sasana of our Buddha is impermanent, are there any suttas that lay out the signs of degeneration of said Dhamma?
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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reflection
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby reflection » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:18 pm

I know of this one sutta. There may well be more.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

The signs it speaks about are a loss of respect for the teacher, dhamma, sangha, training or samadhi.

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Will
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby Will » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:42 am

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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reflection
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby reflection » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:24 pm


John1122
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby John1122 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:54 pm

Thanks

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BlackBird
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby BlackBird » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:53 am

I don't think we're there yet. The internet has given birth to a new age of Dhamma propagation. Millions of people have access to Dhamma instructions and texts that they never had before it's advent. I know everything I do today because at 15 years of age I was curious about Buddhism and looked it up on wikipedia, if it were not for that I wouldn't be here today posting this. I imagine there are many others like me, who never would have come to Buddhism if it wasn't for the ease of attaining information. The information revolution has been the best thing that's happened to the Dhamma in many hundred of years.

There is a lot of corruption in the Sasana, but then there is also a lot of dilligent practitioners.

I think we're a ways off this dhamma ending age, and it makes me glad.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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mirco
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby mirco » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:15 am

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

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Will
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby Will » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:27 am

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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BlackBird
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby BlackBird » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:36 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Will
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby Will » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:13 am

You are being, not trying to be, a dick Blackbird. (Ego assuaged now?)

This is not a private discussion, there are others reading and I am addressing the notion expressed; not the fact that THE BLACKBIRD posted it.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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BlackBird
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby BlackBird » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:37 am

Last edited by BlackBird on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Will
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby Will » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:05 am

Relax Jack, your words are not offensive to me. What does bother me is the PC police that fuss over every syllable. Buddha said kamma is cetana - that is, intention or volition - and since almost no one really knows the heart or intent of another, I refuse to get my knickers in a knot (is that the Empire-correct slang?) over shadows on this screen. And I wish our fellow posters would also not be so small-minded.

As to the point, of course the Internet has spread information about the Dhamma. But info is not practice or ethics or understanding. So I am pessimistic about the alleged transformative power of any medium, per se.

Progress needs many factors and I see the key ones, devotion to the Triple Jewel, pure ethics, vigorous practice, respect for the tradition & one's guru, all of these are getting weaker overall. Yes, not everywhere, nor everyone, which is why I am optimistic that the downward slide can be slowed in and by some groups of lay folk - though monastics are the ones most responsible.

At any rate, I have not finished study of the paper that was linked above, so I must sign off now.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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BlackBird
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby BlackBird » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:26 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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reflection
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby reflection » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:51 am

The sutta I introduced says the true Dhamma will not disappear as long as there is no counterfeit Dhamma. So there being more potential to spread the Dhamma is not necessarily making the Dhamma stronger as it'll also spread the counterfeit Dhamma just as much, if not more.

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BlackBird
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby BlackBird » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:05 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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reflection
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby reflection » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:26 pm

There is no one single counterfeit Dhamma, I think there are quite a few. Just look at how people and teachers disagree even on central doctrinal points. Whatever way one sees it, one has to admit there is no one dhamma anymore, as it was in the time of the Buddha. And it seems the more rapidly its spreading, the more different ideas arise. So from that angle the recent spread of the dhamma may not have been a good thing. Of course there are many angles to it.

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Will
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby Will » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:34 pm

One example of fake Dhamma, are the Dhamma lite followers. They classify rebirth & deva realms as cultural trappings and simply toss them aside. That makes them adherents of wrong view - but they probably will find a way rationalize their notions as correct and the tradition (which they also are not fond of) as wrong.

Reflection has a very strong case.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

binocular
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby binocular » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:48 pm


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mirco
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Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby mirco » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:42 pm

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

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BlackBird
Posts: 1925
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Dhamma Ending Age

Postby BlackBird » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:42 pm

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -


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