Wat Dhammakaya

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
ManEagle
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 6:43 pm

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby ManEagle » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:29 pm

TRobinson465 wrote:
identification wrote:Can this thread possibly be a bit less one sided? Can practitioners in the Dhammakaya come in here and stop letting these people crap on the lineage?


There's like 3 people here who spam hate posts against the temple so its hard to compete. I was going to come straighten up all this slander but was apparently banned on accident after one post. The ban was lifted eventually so perhaps it was just a mistake. I will be open minded and assume no ill will in banning me. I will admit i was kinda bitter from the ban and made this thread on Reddit as a response

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comme ... es_of_the/

But since I was unbanned feel free to ask me about what Dhammakaya is really like or the current case. I have been going to Dhammakaya for a good 15 years or so and I am fairly well versed in the current case if you would like the facts regarding the case and Dhammakaya's side.


It's been a while since I've commented on this topic but have nevertheless been following it with interest and have been waiting for someone like you to 'stand up' for Dhammakaya and to tell another side of the story.

What I find interesting and perhaps 'telling' is the lack of response to your recent posts from some of the quite prolific posters here who have supplied many negative news stories about Dhammakaya. Indeed, I may have done so myself too.

Having re-read some of the previous posts over the 5 or 6 years there has been some very interesting views which I think would be profitable for you and indeed others to re-visit. This one I find especially interesting and I wonder if you'd care to make any comments: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=339&start=100#p266210

My main concern is how many of their followers (my wife included) are, on the face of it, being 'taught', either by visiting the temple and/or by watching their DMC TV, that donating more money to the temple will gain them more merit and therefore give them a better future life/lives. I have actually heard this line been spouted by other followers as well as by Dhammakaya officials. I have also been informed that drinking alcohol means I am going to Buddhist hell. :roll: My wife even refuses to have friends and relatives around our house because she doesn't want to have alcohol in the house or serve it to anyone! Don't get me wrong, the amount of alcohol I consume in one year I could count on one hand. I am not a drinker but I think it is wrong for me or anyone to force my views or beliefs on anyone else.

Many of the Dhammakaya followers who I know reasonable well seem to be somehow bribed into donating for fear of the consequences of not donating. In other words, they are not donating because of any charitable feeling but because they believe they will get something good back at some point in the future. This doesn't seem very Buddhist to me, but then perhaps my undesrtanding of Buddhism isn't very good!

So, you see, my problem with Dhammakaya is that it has almost taken over my wifes' life. Meditation is one thing but all the rest of the nonsense they spout is way the over the top for me and is far too much like American evangelical Christians.

davidbrainerd
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby davidbrainerd » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:57 pm

ManEagle wrote:So, you see, my problem with Dhammakaya is that it has almost taken over my wifes' life. Meditation is one thing but all the rest of the nonsense they spout is way the over the top for me and is far too much like American evangelical Christians.


That's an interesting statement. Do you think then it would be more likely to catch on with American evangelical Christians than the style of Buddhism considered mainstream in America today? I don't know anything about Dhammakaya really.

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suriyopama
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Location: Thailand

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:48 am

ManEagle wrote:It's been a while since I've commented on this topic but have nevertheless been following it with interest and have been waiting for someone like you to 'stand up' for Dhammakaya and to tell another side of the story.

What I find interesting and perhaps 'telling' is the lack of response to your recent posts from some of the quite prolific posters here who have supplied many negative news stories about Dhammakaya. Indeed, I may have done so myself too.

Having re-read some of the previous posts over the 5 or 6 years there has been some very interesting views which I think would be profitable for you and indeed others to re-visit. This one I find especially interesting and I wonder if you'd care to make any comments: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=339&start=100#p266210

My main concern is how many of their followers (my wife included) are, on the face of it, being 'taught', either by visiting the temple and/or by watching their DMC TV, that donating more money to the temple will gain them more merit and therefore give them a better future life/lives. I have actually heard this line been spouted by other followers as well as by Dhammakaya officials. I have also been informed that drinking alcohol means I am going to Buddhist hell. :roll: My wife even refuses to have friends and relatives around our house because she doesn't want to have alcohol in the house or serve it to anyone! Don't get me wrong, the amount of alcohol I consume in one year I could count on one hand. I am not a drinker but I think it is wrong for me or anyone to force my views or beliefs on anyone else.

Many of the Dhammakaya followers who I know reasonable well seem to be somehow bribed into donating for fear of the consequences of not donating. In other words, they are not donating because of any charitable feeling but because they believe they will get something good back at some point in the future. This doesn't seem very Buddhist to me, but then perhaps my undesrtanding of Buddhism isn't very good!

So, you see, my problem with Dhammakaya is that it has almost taken over my wifes' life. Meditation is one thing but all the rest of the nonsense they spout is way the over the top for me and is far too much like American evangelical Christians.


ManEagle , sorry to hear about the negative Dhammakaya experience at your family. Unfortunately, that is only the tip of the iceberg. There are families that have gone bankrupt after the head of the family has donated all the assets, including real estate properties, to Wat Dhammakaya, while others have even ended up in jail, like Supachai Srisupa-aksorn, the wealthy ex-chief of the Klongchan Credit Union.

Besides the obsession for making people donate as much money as possible to Wat Dhammakaya, the distortion of teachings, or the brain-washing style of their teachings and videos, it would be interesting if several other questions about Dhammakaya could be answered e.g.:

Why is Dhammakaya inflicting hate against Muslims? Why is Dhammakaya supporting Wirathu’s Ma Ba Tha and 696 movement?. Why is Dhammakaya, in partnership with the redshirt movement, advocating to establish Buddhism as the National Religion of Thailand? Why are they pushing so hard, even to the point of having monks scuffling with soldiers, to support the nomination of Somdet Chuang as the Supreme Patriarch?

A large number of Dhamamkaya followers in Thailand have been lead to believe that the controversy against Wat Dhammakaya and against the nomination of the pro-dhammakaya Supreme Patriarch is a plot of the Muslims that want to destroy Buddhism in Thailand. But any person living in Thailand knows that, besides the conflict at the deep south, Muslims and people from all religions are very well integrated in Thailand, and that there is a very healthy mutual respect. Furthermore, religious tolerance is protected by the constitution.

The most extended opinion is that Dhammakaya and their attached political factions are pressing the government to establish Buddhism as a National Religion at the next Constitution with the intention of increasing the influence of the Dhammakaya Empire, allowing politicians to have power over monastic affairs (and wealth) and abbots having power over politics. That would be a kind of a mega-mafia, considering the rampant corruption at both Thai politics and at some Thai monasteries.

Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path.
Politics and corruption fuel battle for Thai Buddhism's top post.

davidbrainerd
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby davidbrainerd » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:21 am

suriyopama wrote:The most extended opinion is that Dhammakaya and their attached political factions are pressing the government to establish Buddhism as a National Religion at the next Constitution with the intention of increasing the influence of the Dhammakaya Empire, allowing politicians to have power over monastic affairs (and wealth) and abbots having power over politics. That would be a kind of a mega-mafia, considering the rampant corruption at both Thai politics and at some Thai monasteries.

Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path.
Politics and corruption fuel battle for Thai Buddhism's top post.


LOL. This sounds like all the news articles saying that Trump (whose daughter married an Orthodox Jew and converted to Judaism herself) is the reincarnation of Hitler and wants to gas all the Jews. News people sure have wild and illogical imaginations. Too bad I can't read Thai, because I'm sure a lot of these news article on Dhammakaya would be hilarious to read.

TRobinson465
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby TRobinson465 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:35 am

ManEagle wrote:
TRobinson465 wrote:
identification wrote:Can this thread possibly be a bit less one sided? Can practitioners in the Dhammakaya come in here and stop letting these people crap on the lineage?


There's like 3 people here who spam hate posts against the temple so its hard to compete. I was going to come straighten up all this slander but was apparently banned on accident after one post. The ban was lifted eventually so perhaps it was just a mistake. I will be open minded and assume no ill will in banning me. I will admit i was kinda bitter from the ban and made this thread on Reddit as a response

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comme ... es_of_the/

But since I was unbanned feel free to ask me about what Dhammakaya is really like or the current case. I have been going to Dhammakaya for a good 15 years or so and I am fairly well versed in the current case if you would like the facts regarding the case and Dhammakaya's side.


It's been a while since I've commented on this topic but have nevertheless been following it with interest and have been waiting for someone like you to 'stand up' for Dhammakaya and to tell another side of the story.

What I find interesting and perhaps 'telling' is the lack of response to your recent posts from some of the quite prolific posters here who have supplied many negative news stories about Dhammakaya. Indeed, I may have done so myself too.

Having re-read some of the previous posts over the 5 or 6 years there has been some very interesting views which I think would be profitable for you and indeed others to re-visit. This one I find especially interesting and I wonder if you'd care to make any comments: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=339&start=100#p266210

My main concern is how many of their followers (my wife included) are, on the face of it, being 'taught', either by visiting the temple and/or by watching their DMC TV, that donating more money to the temple will gain them more merit and therefore give them a better future life/lives. I have actually heard this line been spouted by other followers as well as by Dhammakaya officials. I have also been informed that drinking alcohol means I am going to Buddhist hell. :roll: My wife even refuses to have friends and relatives around our house because she doesn't want to have alcohol in the house or serve it to anyone! Don't get me wrong, the amount of alcohol I consume in one year I could count on one hand. I am not a drinker but I think it is wrong for me or anyone to force my views or beliefs on anyone else.

Many of the Dhammakaya followers who I know reasonable well seem to be somehow bribed into donating for fear of the consequences of not donating. In other words, they are not donating because of any charitable feeling but because they believe they will get something good back at some point in the future. This doesn't seem very Buddhist to me, but then perhaps my undesrtanding of Buddhism isn't very good!

So, you see, my problem with Dhammakaya is that it has almost taken over my wifes' life. Meditation is one thing but all the rest of the nonsense they spout is way the over the top for me and is far too much like American evangelical Christians.




Hi there, thanks for the inquiry, Ill try my best to respond to this to the best of my ability.

You are more or less right, Dhammakaya does indeed teach that donating more leads to a better future, that includes donating to the temple, other temples, beggars, etc. But honestly, that is exactly what the Buddha Himself taught. This is honestly pretty consistent with the Buddhist idea of karma, I think Dhammakaya is definitely more open about preaching it than other temples, which is where a lot of these criticisms of the temple come from, but its a completely Buddhist concept backed by suttas and stories the Buddha told about the law of karma.

As for the alcohol thing, that is also pretty much true, Dhammakaya teaches drinking alcohol is bad and is punishable by karma in the future (as does buddhism, 5th precept very clearly states this), and it can indeed lead to hell (5th level of hell in Buddhism), this is a very clear, undisputed teaching in Buddhism, not just Dhammakaya. Honestly, if you consume very little alcohol you probably don't have to be worried about hell anyways, but the Buddha did teach it, just so you know its not only Dhammakaya. In my opinion your wife is probably just taking the teachings super seriously. I myself abstain from alcohol personally for religious reasons, and I think me following Dhammakaya is a large part of this, but I will pretty much let others do whatever.

I do understand where you're coming from when you say Dhammakaya seems to have taken over your wife's life, I have seen this in many followers, but never to the point where it became problematic. For a lot of Dhammakaya followers they see it as the most important thing in their life, which is pretty much true for any devoted religious person, but seems more prominent among Dhammakaya followers. I personally like this though, one of the reasons I stuck with Dhammakaya is that the people there are generally very pious and dedicated, and it seemed nice to be in a place where everyone really took the Buddha's teachings seriously in their everyday lives. I don't want you to think I'm bashing on other temples, but I have seen many many temples where Buddhists attend on a holiday or weekend and then go to a bar and get drunk after or something. I didn't really like that, and while Dhammakaya isn't the only Thai temple where you can find dedicated followers, the fact that many Dhammakaya followers held it Buddhism in their hearts in their daily lives, not just at the temple, is why I stayed. Based on how Dhammakaya teaches I can see how some people may take it in a way that seems overboard, I myself was born and raised in America, but because of the whole Buddhist culture being ingrained in Thailand I can see how some Thai's would take it super serious as you describe your wife.

Truly, I do get a lot of the points you mentioned, I myself had some objections with Dhammakaya early on for the very reasons you mentioned. But as i learned more I grew to accept and really like their model. You are right, it seems like some Dhammakaya followers donate almost out of bribery, which I guess is better karma-wise than not giving at all, but that isn't right. I remember a story in the Tripitaka of a king who gave wanted to give to the Buddha because he wanted the benefits in the future after seeing a beggar give to an arahant or something, afterwards the Buddha stated the beggar, who gave rice water, earned more merit than the king who gave a feast. So you are right, its not correct to give with the intent of getting something in return and honestly, I have seen people at Dhammakaya give with that kind of mindset. But on the other hand, Dhammakaya does teach that intention is the most important in giving and critics like to overlook that. Yes there are people in Dhammakaya who give out of "bribery", but I think that's just a side effect, not so much their intention. I have also seen similar cases of this with other temples also.

I'm a regular attendee of Dhammakaya, not part of the management or anything, so I cant say for sure, but I can make a guess. From what I've seen, I think Dhammakaya's model is based on restoring Buddhism into people's lives through incentives. It's completely true that Buddhism teaches karma and that if you give more you will receive more karmic benefits in the future, holding all things equal such as intention, circumstance, the recipient, etc and all other factors the Buddha said are involved with the merit of giving. I think a lot of temples teach this aspect of Buddhism also, but Dhammakaya does more so. Same with the precepts, Dhammakaya tends to emphasize punishments for breaking the precepts, also completely in line with Buddhism, but more so than other temples. From my experience, I think its about creating incentives not just for the hardcore Buddhists interested in Buddhism to attend, but for regular people who may not be as interested in spiritual development or enlightenment. At the end of the day, for those wanting simply to improve their lives, I think Dhammakaya provides a good resource for those people because they teach to to do good and avoid bad for those not interested in liberation any time soon. This is why I personally like Dhammakaya and why I think a lot of people have been attracted to it. Most people arent hardcore Buddhists interested in deep philosophical teachings on the mind or Nirvana, they just want to improve their lives. Yeah, from the stereotypical western view of Buddhism, it seems a lot of their approaches seem weird, but hey, it works and has proven effective from what I've seen. Its an unconventional model but it works so who am I to say they should change.

So yes, that is my take on Dhammakaya. Also I think a lot of the criticism comes not just from their unconventional methods, but this cultural bias, especially in west, about what Buddhism is. Here's an example, I hear a lot of people say how shocking it is to see Buddhist monks with cell phones (not just Dhammakaya, but other Thai monks and other monks from countries also), but at the same time, in America we have these pastors with TV shows who rake in millions of dollars in salary from TV deals or book sales and live in these huge mansions. I dont mean to bash Christianity, I just wanna make a point. If some pastors are raking in millions and living in mansions, why do people care about Buddhists monks just having a cell phone? I think this cultural bias is part of why people don't like Dhammakaya, because some of their methods challenge their preconceived (and somewhat inaccurate) idea of what Buddhism is. Just some insight on my end.

As for the post you linked to, I think I answered some of it. Yes, you can't have any attachment to anything even kamma to enlighten, this is best exemplified in the story of how Ven. Ananda finally attained Arahantship, but that isnt the present goal for all, or even most Buddhists and that is why Dhammakaya teaches karma to the general public, who are not monks bent on detaching themselves from the world anytime soon. And remember the Buddha taught karma also, so there has to be some fruit to teaching karma. I'd also like to point out that Mettanando Bhikkhu (real name Mano Laohavanich), who the poster cited in the post you linked to, is an anti-Dhammakaya personality who shouldn't be taken as objectively reliable on Dhammakaya. You should google him, a lot of his claims against Dhammakaya are just laughably crazy. I'm not the one to give you a careful analysis of that link since I am just a regular member, but Khemadhammo, who is on Dhammawheel is a Dhammakaya monk who might be able to answer, try PMing him if you want a comprehensive rebuttal on that post.

Thanks for your inquiry, let me know if you have any more questions about Dhammakaya from somebody who actually goes there. :)
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:37 am

davidbrainerd wrote:LOL. This sounds like all the news articles saying that Trump (whose daughter married an Orthodox Jew and converted to Judaism herself) is the reincarnation of Hitler and wants to gas all the Jews. News people sure have wild and illogical imaginations. Too bad I can't read Thai, because I'm sure a lot of these news article on Dhammakaya would be hilarious to read.


Unfortunately, this is not a conspiracy theory; it is a real cult seeking for power and domination. You cannot compare it with the situation at the United States, and it is not invented by the news.
http://www.publicpostonline.net/8097
http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/thai-monks-scuffle-with-troops-amid-leadership-row
http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-news/864880/monks-clash-with-army-demand-supreme-patriarch-action-video
http://www.bangkokpost.com/print/865064/
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Monks-and-soldiers-clash-30279401.html
http://drhabibsiddiqui.blogspot.com/2016/04/when-terrorist-monk-gets-award-for-peace.html
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/When-a-microphone-can-be-stronger-than-an-assault--30263269.html
http://prachatai.org/english/node/5944
http://buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=52,12754,0,0,1,0#.V5hFj_l95aR
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/08/13/world/pathum-thani-journal-most-serene-of-sects-creates-uproar-in-buddhism.html


Image

phpBB [video]
Last edited by suriyopama on Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:38 am

Time for humour :smile:

Image

Dhammakaya leaving Thailand?
From Manager, June 28, 2016
Dhammachayo: I would like to call on all my followers to come to cast a vote to leave Thailand naja.
Caption: It did it before BREXIT.

[Refers to Dhammakaya temple’s abbot Dhammachayo who is now facing charges for money laundering. His followers are trying to block the Department of Special Investigation from arresting their abbot. With a massive number of followers and well-managed system to counter the government, there has been a rumor that Dhammakaya is trying to establish their own state known as Dhammakaya state as a way to circumvent Thai laws. The cartoonist jokes that Dhammakaya will have a vote similar to the BREXIT vote to decide if it will secede from Thailand.]

http://2bangkok.com/dhammakaya-leaving-thailand.html
Last edited by suriyopama on Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

TRobinson465
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby TRobinson465 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:45 am

davidbrainerd wrote:
suriyopama wrote:The most extended opinion is that Dhammakaya and their attached political factions are pressing the government to establish Buddhism as a National Religion at the next Constitution with the intention of increasing the influence of the Dhammakaya Empire, allowing politicians to have power over monastic affairs (and wealth) and abbots having power over politics. That would be a kind of a mega-mafia, considering the rampant corruption at both Thai politics and at some Thai monasteries.

Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path.
Politics and corruption fuel battle for Thai Buddhism's top post.


LOL. This sounds like all the news articles saying that Trump (whose daughter married an Orthodox Jew and converted to Judaism herself) is the reincarnation of Hitler and wants to gas all the Jews. News people sure have wild and illogical imaginations. Too bad I can't read Thai, because I'm sure a lot of these news article on Dhammakaya would be hilarious to read.



I agree lol, to add to my most recent post. I'd also like to point out that a lot of the critics on this thread are consistently citing The Nation and The Bangkok Post in their accusations against Dhammakaya. Both of which are anti-Dhammakaya papers. If you want proof just look at their past articles about Dhammakaya and an objective person can easily tell they have anti-Dhammakaya bias. They also delete any pro-Dhammakaya comments on their articles which is why you will only see anti-Dhammakaya comments on their articles. There's not too many pro-Dhammakaya news outlets, especially since many news stations were shut down by the Military Junta after the coup in 2014, so try to take many of these "news" stories against Dhammakaya with a grain of salt. People complain about the polarizing bias in American news that's taken place in recent years, but Thailand is much MUCH worse. Thai press isn't exactly known for being free and fair.

Heres an example, The Bangkok Post took a picture of food collected at Wat Phra Dhammakaya for victims of the South Thailand Insurgency, well Bangkok Post cropped out the sign saying it was for Southern Thailand and ran a bogus report that the food was sent to the main temple from all over Thailand to help those there.

http://www.dhammakayauncovered.com/lett ... une-7-2016

The Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand (founded by a member of the Bangkok Post) also held a panel on Politics in Buddhism, it was set up largely just to attack and slander Dhammakaya, way worse than what you are seeing here on Dhammawheel. It wasnt filmed but some followers attended and wrote a rebuttal to some of the ridiculous points made about Dhammakaya at the panel the Bangkok Post tried to get foreign news outlets to also report.

http://www.dhammakayauncovered.com/lett ... espondents
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:09 am

No need to read the newspapers to evidence the truth, just talk with the Thai Dhammakaya acolytes. Most will blame Muslims for wanting to destroy Buddhism and the country, and they will tell you that the only solution is to declare Buddhism as the national religion at the Constitution and to push for the nomination of the Dhammakaya Supreme Patriarch of Thailand.

Reality sucks.

davidbrainerd
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby davidbrainerd » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:29 am



From that NY Times article:

For example, she said: ''One teaching is, you make money Monday to Friday, then on Saturday and Sunday you come to the temple and meditate and your mind will be more supple and clear so that on Monday you can make more money.''


So basically, exactly like your average secular American dharma center. So is that supposed to be a complaint?

''To put it in a nutshell, traditional Buddhism does not cater for modern Thai people, only for those who go to temples for superstitions or astrologers or fortune telling,''...By contrast, Wat Dhammakaya, the main temple, is modern: clean, efficient, quiet, with a huge underground garage and ample bathroom facilities. Almost all its monks have college degrees, while most other monks have only minimal education.


Again, sounds like secular American dharma centers, or what they wish they were.

But this :

The controversy strikes at the cultural heart of Thailand, where Buddhism is a state religion in all but name and most of the country's 60 million people follow the established religion.


All of this has thrown Thai Buddhism into an uproar. The sect's leader, Phra Dhammachayo, 55, has been accused of fraud and embezzlement as well as heresy. Newspapers are filled with demands that he be tried or defrocked or both. The top body of Thai Buddhism has demanded the [Dhammakaya] abbot's removal and has summoned him for questioning


...suggests any rumors that its Dhammakaya trying to get the constitution revised to make Buddhism the official religion is completely unfounded. Why would the group being persecuted by the national religious establishment as heretical want to give the national religious power structure more power? This is like saying Unitarians in England in the 1600s would rally to get Christianity established as the official religion so the Anglican church could persecute them even more (I know, not the greatest analogy, but hopefully you get the point).

I'm not there, I don't know. But an article like this doesn't convince me, and since I'm not familiar with the other sources, not sure how far to trust them.

suriyopama wrote:No need to read the newspapers to evidence the truth, just talk with the Thai Dhammakaya acolytes. Most will blame Muslims for wanting to destroy Buddhism and the country...


All I know is Muslims did destroy Buddhism in Afghanistan. I hardly think a desire to defend one's heritage against an invasive religion of intolerance that sees it as a duty to destroy "idols" would be limited only to one sect of Buddhists. But I can see how a Westerner (I'm one too) could have trouble seeing this point. We don't have ancient Buddha statues all over the place over here, after all. Neither does Afghanistan, but they used to...

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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:50 am

davidbrainerd wrote:
...suggests any rumors that its Dhammakaya trying to get the constitution revised to make Buddhism the official religion is completely unfounded. Why would the group being persecuted by the national religious establishment as heretical want to give the national religious power structure more power? This is like saying Unitarians in England in the 1600s would rally to get Christianity established as the official religion so the Anglican church could persecute them even more (I know, not the greatest analogy, but hopefully you get the point).

I'm not there, I don't know. But an article like this doesn't convince me, and since I'm not familiar with the other sources, not sure how far to trust them.


That is not a rumor! They are actually demanding it very loud. On TV, newspapers, radio, Dhamma talks, academic gatherings... just tune to Dhammakaya radio, or pro-dhammakaya politicians and listen to them. They are actually demanding to get the constitution revised to make Buddhism the official religion. You could not have missed that if you were here in Thailand!

You don't have to believe me or the news. Just listen to Phra Methee Dhammacharn, Secretary-general of the Buddhism Protection Centre. He is one of the promotors enshrining Buddhism with a Dhammakaya flag as the national religion in the constitution.

:reading:

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby slimdabuddhist » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:54 pm

Honestly seeing these dhammakaya followers make me laugh. They can't obviously see how blind they are. maybe they like the fact that they can ordain as monks once a year and make extra side donation off the brainwashed supporters. Did you know these so called venerable monks play on facebook, have ipads at their disposal, eat great food? The palm beach branch instead of sometimes eating lunch in their temple, they go out to the city in Miami to eat at luxury restaurants. They go shopping at malls DURING THE RAINY SEASON. AREN'T you not supposed to be leaving the temple at all since buddha wants you to stay and study buddhism at your temple? ALSO I have seen monks touch money, have bank accounts and have pressured laypeople to donate ridiculous amounts of money to acommondate for their greedy lifestyle! I will never ever acknowledge dhammakaya as real buddhism, they are one big mafia who take advantage of people at their lowest point. I am still a buddhist but I will never associate with this parasite that's leeching off buddhism.

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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:39 am

davidbrainerd wrote:
suriyopama wrote:
suriyopama wrote:No need to read the newspapers to evidence the truth, just talk with the Thai Dhammakaya acolytes. Most will blame Muslims for wanting to destroy Buddhism and the country...


All I know is Muslims did destroy Buddhism in Afghanistan. I hardly think a desire to defend one's heritage against an invasive religion of intolerance that sees it as a duty to destroy "idols" would be limited only to one sect of Buddhists. But I can see how a Westerner (I'm one too) could have trouble seeing this point. We don't have ancient Buddha statues all over the place over here, after all. Neither does Afghanistan, but they used to...


That is totally irrelevant to the situation of Dhammakaya in Thailand. The criticism and pressure against Dhammakaya, against the nomination of a pro-Dhammakaya Supreme Patriarch, and against the imposition of Buddhism as a National Religion is not coming from another religion, but mainly from the followers of the Thai Forest Tradition; from people that is afraid that the greed for money and power, distorted teachings and weird practices of the Dhammakaya cult may destroy the heritage of great Theravada masters like Ajahn Mun, Ajahn Sao, Luangta Maha Boowa, Buddhadasa, Ajahn Chah, etc. And the judiciary pressure is coming from the fact that Dhammachayo is laughing in the face of the justice by refusing to declare as a witness, hiding at his UFO surrounded by his acolytes, backhoes and barbed wire.

The former Supreme Patriarch, the venerable Somdet Phra Nyanasamvara, ordered Dhammachayo to disrobe for corruption, false supranatural claims, and distorting the teachings. It is hard to understand why he is still a monk in charge of the largest Buddhist sect in the world.

I don't know which Sutta, but didn't the Buddha said that the end of his teachings would not come from another religion but from the relaxation of his own followers? I think he predicted 5,000 years, so we may be at the middle of this Buddhist period.

davidbrainerd
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby davidbrainerd » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:08 am

slimdabuddhist wrote:Did you know these so called venerable monks play on facebook, have ipads at their disposal, eat great food?


So they're like a Theravada version of Tibetan monks?


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