Dan74 wrote:I think Khalil's suggestion is a good one.
As for the teachings on emptiness, they are an elaboration or rephrasing of the Buddha's key teachings of dependent origination and anatta. The more I study and practice Mahayana and the more I read Pali scriptures, the more I see them as essentially pointing at the same thing. Others further along the path might discern more differences, I don't know. To me the main differences are in methods and culture-specific practices.
cooran wrote:The only thing wrong with your post above is that you should have included the words ''In my personal opinion'' quite plainly at the beginning of your post.
"Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained.
"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.
"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.
"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."
Esoterism is the idea that some spiritual teachings should be kept secret from the majority and only be revealed to a select few. The Upaniùads, which were composed around the time of the Buddha, were secret teachings only made available to high caste people who pledged total loyalty to the teacher. Even in Tibetan Buddhism or Vajrayana, some teachings are reserved only to those who have been initiated. The idea that the Dhamma should be restricted to or monopolized by an ‘in-group’ was repugnant to the Buddha. He perceived the truths he taught as being understandable to all, relevant to all and applicable to all. On one occasion he said, ‘Three things shine openly, not in secret. What three? The orb of the moon, the orb of the sun and the Dhamma and discipline taught by the Tathàgata’ (Anguttara Nikaya I. 283). He reiterated this same point just before his final passing when he said; ‘I have proclaimed the Dhamma without any idea of a hidden and open teaching. I do not have the closed fist of the teacher who holds anything back’ (Digha Nikaya II. 100).
Ven. S. Dhammika
Kim said: http://peterdellasantina.org/books/tree ... enment.htm Peter della Santina's The Tree of Enlightenment.
daverupa wrote:I might, or might not, become motivated to respond to those articles, which are interesting in that they convey the view "abhidhamma is valid" in various flawed ways.
Irrespective of this claim, which seems second only to rebirth discussions in potential agitation, the main line of the OP is over Mahayana. Returning to this, I expect that 1) 2) 3) stand as valid critiques (allowing for this purpose that "SuttaVinaya" might include more than I prefer). Objections?
kirk5a wrote:What does it mean for something, that it, "isn't the Dhamma"?
cooran wrote:Thanks Kim. Peter della Santina knows his stuff!
cooran wrote:Gosh! you read it quickly!
retrofuturist wrote:... he is looking at the cross-school comparison from a Vajrayana lens, as opposed to an independent one
retrofuturist wrote:(or a Theravada one, which would be apt in this sub-forum).
Dan74 wrote:As to Daverupa's comments, I would say that whatever leads to liberation is Buddhavacana, whether or not it was actually spoken by the historic Shakyamuni Buddha in the way we conventionally understand this.