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A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas” - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Dmytro
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Dmytro » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:36 pm

Thank you, Sylvester.

It's indeed an impressive conclusion to the thread called "A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”", which shows what qualities does this method cultivate in some of its followers.

I would appreciate if someone would let me know about the people who followed this method for a long time with decent results (though I doubt they exist).

Metta, Dmytro


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daverupa
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby daverupa » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:03 pm

It's easy to see
the errors of others,
but hard to see
your own.
You winnow like chaff
the errors of others,
but conceal your own —
like a cheat, an unlucky throw.

If you focus on the errors of others,
constantly finding fault,
your effluents flourish.
You're far from their ending.

Dhp 252-3

Freawaru
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Freawaru » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:12 am


morning mist
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby morning mist » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:40 pm

with metta,

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tiltbillings
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:50 pm


morning mist
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby morning mist » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:20 pm

I am really glad that reasonable discussions will not be deleted as in " Truth is Within" blog or people who doesn't follow the same view be removed and told to go away. The way I see it we are on the same path, perhaps with different interpretation. There is no need to kick someone out when they don't share the same view. In fact , it can be beneficial to discuss with others with opposing views. Sometimes we only see things that support our own view, it is difficult to look into what doesn't support the view that we held. Others can bring up things that we fail to see to help us see blind spots that we missed. This gives a more complete picture about the topic at hand. In this way discussion can be helpful. It is also one of the supporting factors for right view.

"Assisted by five factors, right view has cetovimuttiphala as its fruit & reward, and pannavimuttiphala as its fruit & benefit. Right view is assisted by virtue ( sila) , assisted by learning , assisted by discussion, assisted by tranquility (samatha ), assisted by insight (vipassana). Assisted by these five factors, right view has cetovimuttiphala as its fruit & benefit, and pannavimuttiphala as its fruit & benefit.” -MN 143

Metta,
with metta,

morning mist
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby morning mist » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:49 pm

with metta,

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legolas
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby legolas » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:37 am

"1. Samatha followed by Vipassana
2. Vipassana followed by Samatha
3. "Then there is the case where a bhikkhu has developed tranquillity and insight joined in pairs ( samatha-vipassanam yuganaddham). As he develops tranquillity and insight together, the path arises in him. He now frequents that path, cultivates, and pursues it. While he is doing so his fetters are abandoned and the underlying tendencies destroyed".

None of the above implies that within the first two instances, that one comes out of jhana to practice vipassana, merely that sooner or later the two have to go together.

The point made by Nana, about jhana being vast & expansive is well made. In the suttas there are only four "jhana's" - the immaterial states are never called jhana. So when jhana is described as being vast & expansive it can only apply in that context to the first four jhana. Later commentary starts talking about 8 jhana's, this is a case of later commentary blurring what is jhana and what is not.

pegembara
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby pegembara » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:33 am

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"Is passion-obsession to be abandoned with regard to all pleasant feeling? Is resistance-obsession to be abandoned with regard to all painful feeling? Is ignorance-obsession to be abandoned with regard to all neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling?"

"No... There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With that he abandons passion. No passion-obsession gets obsessed there.[4] There is the case where a monk considers, 'O when will I enter & remain in the dimension that those who are noble now enter & remain in?' And as he thus nurses this yearning for the unexcelled liberations, there arises within him sorrow based on that yearning. With that he abandons resistance. No resistance-obsession gets obsessed there.[5] There is the case where a monk, with the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. With that he abandons ignorance. No ignorance-obsession gets obsessed there."[6]
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Nyana » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:36 am


morning mist
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby morning mist » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:52 am

with metta,

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cooran
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby cooran » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:33 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:40 am


Sylvester
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:49 am


Sylvester
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:17 am


Nyana
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Nyana » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:40 pm


Nyana
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Nyana » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:46 pm


Sylvester
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:55 pm


Nyana
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Nyana » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:36 pm


Sylvester
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:25 pm



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