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The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God. - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
PeterB
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:45 am

Thanks Tilt. What is clear is that the Buddha is saying that there is no Refuge in a objectified " god", out there.

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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:52 am


PeterB
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:55 am

Interestingly its what Lex Hixon says is true of the Sufis too, but this is not the place for that discussion.

kannada
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby kannada » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:05 am

Just a view - nothing more...

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christopher:::
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby christopher::: » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:46 am

Yeah. Which is in part the beauty of the Buddha's dharma. At the core are these teachings about how our own minds work. We all seem to agree that these gems can be put into practice, verified and tested. They work! As do the brahma viharas... call them whatever we like.

As for the metaphysics of each tradition::: God saying this, creating the Universe, being like this, Buddha talking to God, Moses or Jesus talking to God, it does all sound rather fantastical and mythic. Teachings to be careful about approaching literally, imo.

What's most important (in my life) are the recipes and essential moral codes these wise men left for living our lives in a more peaceful, loving, compassionate, joyful, wise and enlightened way.

Beliefs differ. The core teachings of most of the world's religions are for us here, in this world. Still, for many people the metaphysics and the real world teachings come as one package. Thus the importance of being respectful.

Just my pov.

:namaste:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

Namu Butsu
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Namu Butsu » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:38 pm

Namaste,

I followed the debate on the other forum and it is quite hard to understand. Both have good points. But I think a lot of people misunderstand hinduism. It is as mentioned earlier that God is looked at as Monism ONE Complete Reality and Panantheism that God is in all things and transcendent above all things. We are Emanations from Lord Siva. There is no separation. Siva in form of Siva Shakti emanated the universe. Now to understand Siva and Sakti is not to view them as the Man in the picture above and the Female form. It is symbolic of Siva and Sakti as feminime power. Anyways check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH6KNeI7u2g it describes Siva-Sakti and how it goes along with quantum physics.

Also Siva in form of Lord Nataraja (the Cosmic Dance) is also along the lines of quantum physics see here http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resourc ... dance.html

So we cannot get confused with the Islamic, christian, and jewish "concept" of God and the Hindu version. It is not simply that a Creator created things, but instead they use the term God or Siva to describe the coming of this universe. I dont know if its true but it seems to go along with quantum physics just like dependent origination. God be it Siva to Shaivites or Vishnu to Vaishnavas is not a THING or some individual being, but instead God is immanent and is the pulsating cosmic energy. Similar to the Dao of the Daoist.

I am still confused at what path I am going to take. But I like to see from all sides before deciding. I have a deep affection for the Shaivite Hindu path, but I also am attached to Buddha. Some things though are unanswered for me in buddhism. I find it difficult to know how Karma, rebirth, and many worlds including spiritual worlds exist without a Deity that emanated it. But I have an open mind. Its just when I look around or as I am studying Traditional Chinese Medicine in school I learn about how everything in the body and the environment works together and things are just perfectly woven together, how can there be no deity? But I know all this is rational understanding and rational understanding doesnt prove anything. But it makes me wonder. :reading:
"It was only when I went to China in 1954-55 that I actually studied Marxist ideology and learned the history of the Chinese revolution. Once I understood Marxism, my attitude changed completely. I was so attracted to Marxism, I even expressed my wish to become a Communist Party member."-Dalai Lama (Time Magazine 1999)
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/vegi.html (Meat eating and vegetarianism)

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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:19 pm


Namu Butsu
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Namu Butsu » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:22 pm

Namaste,

Well according to shaivite hindus
"The Agamas explain, "That which appears as cold or as hot, fresh or spoiled, good fortune and bad, love and hate, effort and laziness, the exalted and the depraved, the rich and the poor, the well-founded and the ill-founded, all this is God Himself; none other than Him can we know." Aum Namah Sivaya."

Read more here http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resourc ... la-11.html

I would love for someone to address the view though I posted above, because I want to see the Buddhist point of view it will be helpful in my decision making. :coffee:
with metta

:buddha1:
"It was only when I went to China in 1954-55 that I actually studied Marxist ideology and learned the history of the Chinese revolution. Once I understood Marxism, my attitude changed completely. I was so attracted to Marxism, I even expressed my wish to become a Communist Party member."-Dalai Lama (Time Magazine 1999)
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/vegi.html (Meat eating and vegetarianism)

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christopher:::
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby christopher::: » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:57 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:36 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby clw_uk » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:37 am

Last edited by clw_uk on Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:51 am


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Ben
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Ben » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:52 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:13 am


Namu Butsu
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Namu Butsu » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:27 am

Namaste,

Could someone please comment on the post I said and perhaps help me understand the buddhist perspective. The reason why Is I am used to hearing buddhist response to the christian and islamic view of God (which the buddhist refute very nicely), but I never get a clear answer on refutations to the Hindu concept since the hindu concept is way different then the abrahamic perspective. I would love to hear from ben. Clw_UK i rather not hear from you, because you wanted to rationalize it, I was not seeking a debate I was simply wanting someone to respond. I made a post similar on E-sangha but those that responded only responded with a refutation to the christian concept of God. I want to hear from a buddhist who truely knows the buddhist and also Hindu perspective so that they can enlighten me. In particular I just want a response on the Buddhist perspective of the Hindu view that Siva emanates the universe. As Siva-Sakti seems to be allignment with quantum physics. I know dependent origination also goes along with it and is part of it. I gave a link because I wanted someone to read and understand before answering. I am just seeking truth that is all. I dont want to be part of the other debate going on in the thread.. I simply want a buddhist perspective.

with metta
-juan
"It was only when I went to China in 1954-55 that I actually studied Marxist ideology and learned the history of the Chinese revolution. Once I understood Marxism, my attitude changed completely. I was so attracted to Marxism, I even expressed my wish to become a Communist Party member."-Dalai Lama (Time Magazine 1999)
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/vegi.html (Meat eating and vegetarianism)

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clw_uk
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby clw_uk » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:57 am

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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:04 am


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Macavity
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Macavity » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:09 am


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mikenz66
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:14 am


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clw_uk
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby clw_uk » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:15 am

Last edited by clw_uk on Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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