Why isn’t dana included in the training of monastics?

[starter]

Hi friend,

I have a question concerning dana practice.

In MN 107 (and some other suttas), the Buddha showed the monastics (or also the lay disciples?) the gradual training for obtaining tranquility:
1) Morality
2) Sense-control
3) Moderation in eating [wholesome eating]
4) Vigilance [watchfulness; dwell on intent to cleanse the mind of obstructive mental states]
5) Mindfulness and clear comprehension
6) Overcoming of the five hindrances
7) Jhana

I wonder why dana isn’t included in this system of the training. The Buddha seemed to have taught only his lay disciples about the practice of dana:

"And what is the treasure of generosity? There is the case of a disciple of the noble ones, his awareness cleansed of the stain of stinginess, living at home, freely generous, openhanded, delighting in being magnanimous, responsive to requests, delighting in the distribution of alms. This is called the treasure of generosity." — AN 7.6

"These are the five rewards of generosity: One is dear and appealing to people at large, one is admired by good people, one's good name is spread about, one does not stray from the rightful duties of the householder, and with the break-up of the body at death, one reappears in a good destination, in the heavenly worlds." — AN 5.35

It seems to me that the monastics also need to practice dana (e.g. generous in one’s time, knowledge, ... of course I know many of them are doing so by teaching dhamma to lay people, but it doesn't seem to be required for the systematic training outlined above). I thought probably dana was included as an antidote for greed/stinginess in step 6 “overcoming of the five hindrances”, or as an antidote for selfishness when practicing letting-go of self, but surprisingly I haven’t yet found such usage in the training methods given to the monastics (?).

I’ve been practicing Dhamma according to the gradual training outlined in MN107, and didn’t pay much attention to dana since it’s not included in such training. But I’m a bit confused now if the lay disciples should follow the same training that the Buddha gave to the monastics, or should incorporate his teachings to lay followers into such trainings.

With metta,

Starter

[cooran]

Hello starter,

This intro by Bhikkhu Bodhi might be of interest:

Dana The Practice of Giving selected essays edited by Bhikkhu Bodhi

''The practice of giving is universally recognized as one of the most basic human virtues, a quality that testifies to the depth of one's humanity and one's capacity for self-transcendence. In the teaching of the Buddha, too, the practice of giving claims a place of special eminence, one which singles it out as being in a sense the foundation and seed of spiritual development. In the Pali suttas we read time and again that "talk on giving" (danakatha) was invariably the first topic to be discussed by the Buddha in his "graduated exposition" of the Dhamma. Whenever the Buddha delivered a discourse to an audience of people who had not yet come to regard him as their teacher, he would start by emphasizing the value of giving. Only after his audience had come to appreciate this virtue would he introduce other aspects of his teaching, such as morality, the law of kamma, and the benefits in renunciation, and only after all these principles had made their impact on the minds of his listeners would he expound to them that unique discovery of the Awakened Ones, the Four Noble Truths.

Strictly speaking, giving does not appear in its own right among the factors of the Noble Eightfold Path, nor does it enter among the other requisites of enlightenment (bodhipakkhiya dhamma). Most probably it has been excluded from these groupings because the practice of giving does not by its own nature conduce directly and immediately to the arising of insight and the realization of the Four Noble Truths. Giving functions in the Buddhist discipline in a different capacity. It does not come at the apex of the path, as a factor constituent of the process of awakening, but rather it serves as a basis and preparation which underlies and quietly supports the entire endeavor to free the mind from the defilements.

Nevertheless, though giving is not counted directly among the factors of the path, its contribution to progress along the road to liberation should not be overlooked or underestimated. The prominence of this contribution is underscored by the place which the Buddha assigns to giving in various sets of practices he has laid down for his followers. Besides appearing as the first topic in the graduated exposition of the Dhamma, the practice of giving also figures as the first of the three bases of meritorious deeds (punnakiriyavatthu), as the first of the four means of benefiting others (sangahavatthu), and as the first of the ten paramis or "perfections." The latter are the sublime virtues to be cultivated by all aspirants to enlightenment, and to the most exalted degree by those who follow the way of the Bodhisatta aimed at the supreme enlightenment of perfect Buddhahood.

Regarded from another angle, giving can also be identified with the personal quality of generosity (caga). This angle highlights the practice of giving, not as the outwardly manifest act by which an object is transferred from oneself to others, but as the inward disposition to give, a disposition which is strengthened by outward acts of giving and which in turn makes possible still more demanding acts of self-sacrifice. Generosity is included among the essential attributes of the sappurisa, the good or superior person, along with such other qualities as faith, morality, learning and wisdom. Viewed as the quality of generosity, giving has a particularly intimate connection to the entire movement of the Buddha's path. For the goal of the path is the destruction of greed, hate and delusion, and the cultivation of generosity directly debilitates greed and hate, while facilitating that pliancy of mind that allows for the eradication of delusion.

The present Wheel publication has been compiled in order to explore in greater depth this cardinal Buddhist virtue, the practice of giving, which in writings on applied Buddhism is so often taken for granted that it is usually passed over without comment. In this issue four practicing Buddhists of today, all of whom combine textual knowledge of the Buddha's teachings with a personal commitment to the path, set forth their understanding of the various aspects of giving and examine it in relation to the wider body of Dhamma practice.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el367.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris

[Anicca]

Howdy Starter!

Rather than cut and paste huge amounts of text or try to put into my own words what others have stated at least as good as if not (most assuredly) better than i could - check out this link:

Dhamma - A Gradual Training

The gradual training begins with the practice of generosity,

Then the Blessed One ... gave a step-by-step talk, i.e., a talk on giving, a talk on ... — Ud 5.3

Metta

[starter]

Hi Chris and Anicca,

Many thanks for your great help. I wonder if we will be trained on dana in a monastery if we go homeless now -- when our minds are already ready to receive the teachings on the Four Noble Truths, or have already broken or weakened some fetters. I understand that "the cultivation of generosity directly debilitates greed and hate, while facilitating that pliancy of mind that allows for the eradication of delusion", but I wonder why the Buddha didn't include dana in his systemic training of monastics.

With metta,

Starter

[Virgo]

I wonder why dana isn’t included in this system of the training. The Buddha seemed to have taught only his lay disciples about the practice of dana:

Hi,

In a lot of ways it is. Some bhikkhus give Dhamma dana, which is the teaching of the Dhamma to lay people. The Buddha says the Dhamma surpasses all gifts. Also, since monks don't have many valuables they do not have much to give, but they are encouraged to be generous with whatever have that they don't necessarily need. Monks also allow people to give them food, which is a dana in a way itself, because it allows the lay-person the opportunity to make merit through giving food which is life-sustaining. So monks, by following sila strongly, give the gift of a being a field of merit for those who wish to pay respects to them, give to do them, do something for them, etc. And by not harming any creatures, they give protection to all being, having decided to go against their greed, hatred, and delusion. In fact, if you become enlightened, not only is it good for yourself, but it is a gift to the whole world, truly.

Kevin

[Goofaholix]

Many thanks for your great help. I wonder if we will be trained on dana in a monastery if we go homeless now -- when our minds are already ready to receive the teachings on the Four Noble Truths, or have already broken or weakened some fetters. I understand that "the cultivation of generosity directly debilitates greed and hate, while facilitating that pliancy of mind that allows for the eradication of delusion", but I wonder why the Buddha didn't include dana in his systemic training of monastics.

What do you think someone with no money and no real possessions will be able to donate?

Giving teaching and time to lay people is one way that they currently express dana.

[bodom]

But I’m a bit confused now if the lay disciples should follow the same training that the Buddha gave to the monastics, or should incorporate his teachings to lay followers into such trainings.

If you are a householder you should follow the training given to householders by the Buddha such as outlined in these suttas:

Everyman's Ethics
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el014.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To live as a householder and try to practice as a monastic is to place unrealistic expectations on oneself.

In SN 17:23, the Buddha advises lay disciples to "Try to become like the householder Citta, and like the householder Hatthaka of Alavi. These two, Citta, and Hatthaka are models and guiding standards for my lay disciples." He goes on to say similarly that if one aspires to be a monk they should live like Sariputta and Mahamoggallana for these two are "models and guiding standards for my bhikkhus".

If you are a householder live and practice as householder.

[Paññāsikhara]

The standard idea is that while the lay community provides the four basic requisites as dana to the sangha, the sangha in turn provides the gift of the Dhamma to the lay (and monastic) community. However, one must first go through the training (outlined in the first post) before one has any Dhamma to give in the first place. And this gift of Dhamma is considered to be the highest form of giving.

[Individual]

Mind if I elaborate on this?

And this gift of Dhamma is considered to be the highest form of giving.

It's not included, but you could say that it is implied. People misunderstand what "dana" means. It doesn't mean merely transferring material goods from one to another, like "charity". Material items are nice, but they aren't happiness or wisdom; just the context in which these things arise.

A monastic's goal is happiness and liberation (for himself and others). Something like alleviating global poverty, illness, etc., that's a nice goal but it could be a distraction. It's a noble goal, but a side goal that could be a problem. When you're traveling, you cannot take two roads. You can only take one road and although they are often parallel, the path of mental purification and the path of worldly service are not always the same. The classic example is the fact that you cannot be both a world-turning monarch or a Buddha; it has to be one or the other. One could devote himself to others' material well-being only to find that his own mind is not purified, others' minds are not purified, and anything he hasn't worked for to that end (mental purification) is only temporary. In the process of handling money and value to distribute it to the poor, a monastic might become taken up by greed, misusing the money, or taken up by pride, feeling an unworthy sense of joy in his accomplishments. Both would be a hindrance to him.

However, when a monastic acts compassionately for the sake of others, that is the greatest dana and no money is required. It itself has no quantifiable value (because it's just acting friendly? acting nice and peaceful?), but the opportunity for it to enrich others' lives is infinite so it is the greatest treasure. And thus, the greatest dana is the gift of dhamma.

[Hoo]

Everyman's Ethics
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el014.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To live as a householder and try to practice as a monastic is to place unrealistic expectations on oneself.

In SN 17:23, the Buddha advises lay disciples to "Try to become like the householder Citta, and like the householder Hatthaka of Alavi. These two, Citta, and Hatthaka are models and guiding standards for my lay disciples." He goes on to say similarly that if one aspires to be a monk they should live like Sariputta and Mahamoggallana for these two are "models and guiding standards for my bhikkhus".

If you are a householder live and practice as householder.

Hoo

[starter]

But I’m a bit confused now if the lay disciples should follow the same training that the Buddha gave to the monastics, or should incorporate his teachings to lay followers into such trainings.

If you are a householder you should follow the training given to householders by the Buddha such as outlined in these suttas ... To live as a householder and try to practice as a monastic is to place unrealistic expectations on oneself.

Hello friends,

Your posts have been very helpful -- thanks a bunch! The dana I was thinking of for the monastics is the sharing of their gains with other monastics, teaching dhamma, ...). When I asked "if the lay disciples should follow the same training that the Buddha gave to the monastics, or should incorporate his teachings to lay followers into such trainings",I don’t mean following monastic discipline (the Patimokkha), but the gradual training system the Buddha taught the monastics such as outlined in MN 107.

I split this discussion into a new thread: Are the Buddha’s teachings to the monks directly applicable to laymen?

May you succeed in your cultivation!

Starter

[rowyourboat]

Hi Starter

Your confusion is reasonable! ..and you are not the only one

I think dana can apply to anyone- as many on this thread have posted dhamma dana is a valid form of dana. All monks give up their time to do some degree of social service as well to their community..

As for whether the monk's practice is suitable for lay people- the point of becoming a monk is that the practitioner can live the holy life pure 'like a polished conch shell' ..it is 'uncluttered' etc denoting that the practice is easier and smoother as a monk as there are less obstacles. So while lay people cannot carry out the whole of the practice quite like that, it does not in anyway suggest that lay people cannot reach great heights in the path- most evidence suggest becoming a non-returner (anagamin) is certainly possible (becoming an arahanth is a bit contentious). I might add that there is a time when lay people can carry out the full monk's life: when he or she is on silent retreat and with temporary 'ordination'!

with metta

Matheesha

[Hanzze]

Here a link to a refection of a Bhukkhuni on Food of Compassion the the daily Dana interaction.

[starter]

Hi friends,

Thanks for all your input. This discussion has been splitted into a new topic:

The best and highest practice of dana – anicca and anatta
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6454" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,

Starter

[Ceisiwr]

Isnt their dana the sharing of their insights into Dhamma?