How common is stream entry?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
mogg
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby mogg » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:53 pm

Last edited by mogg on Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Lazy_eye
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Lazy_eye » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:54 pm

Just out of curiosity, how common is reaching the deva realm, compared to gaining stream entry?

I ask because traditionally many if not most laypeople have set their sights on a favorable rebirth, rather than ariyan attainments. So it's not necessarily a simple choice between reaching stream entry or falling into the lower realms.

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Digity » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:33 pm

Human realm and above is rare. If you honestly believe this and also believe that the arising of a Buddha is rare too you'd be pretty foolish not to put as much effort as is needed to achieve stream-entry. To me it's pretty damn clear that this is the path out of suffering and even though I struggled with accepting these teachings in the past through investigation I've realized there's no other way out. You have to put some effort in this respect to see these things...you can't just sit there like a lump on the log and except insight to come to you. Stop complaining that it's too hard....reflect on what the Buddha did to achieve enlightenment...now what if the Buddha had the "it's too hard!" attitude! Can you picture the Buddha saying that? Oh, it's too hard...I can't do it! No, he was a strong person and he forged through! I have had my moments of discouragement, but they're becoming less and less and I have reflected on the strength of the Buddha and it's encourages me to move forward.

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Dan74
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Dan74 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:21 pm

_/|\_

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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:18 pm

Instead of making guesses about the "rarity" and the stuff, better look more often into Dhamma Mirror to see if there are still things to be fulfilled to be a stream-enterer yourself -) When there they are, there will be no need to ask this question.

However, just for statistics. There's a sutta where Buddha speaks about people who passed away in a certain village. Among them there were 50 non-returners, 90 once-returners and 506 (ye, 506) stream-enterers.

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby cooran » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:29 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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David N. Snyder
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:40 pm

Image




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Alex123
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Alex123 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:35 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

mogg
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby mogg » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:57 am


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PadmaPhala
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby PadmaPhala » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:31 am


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PadmaPhala
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby PadmaPhala » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:36 am


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khlawng
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby khlawng » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:25 pm


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PadmaPhala
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby PadmaPhala » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:51 am

Certainty of being on the right path, less uneasiness (specially about the future)... but the behavioural changes aren't that much, because you were already on that path.

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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:35 am


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Zenainder
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zenainder » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:14 pm

Forum,

I pondered the OP's question throughout my weekend. I am, by no means, a stream-winner yet. I am still finding balance in the "right" view regarding this and from the little reading from the sutras I am convinced that stream-winning is possible. How common is it though? One extreme, assuming its a possibility, is rarity and the other is often; although I think it to be easy to say "rare" due to my relative view and apprehension that if it was so common "what am I doing wrong?" Finding a middle-way between rare and often would be uncommon.

This is likely a relative question that I find more interesting, is the attainment, dualistically speaking, "hard" or does our relative state create that delusion? What holds us back from it? (I tend to think clinging / passions, self-preservation, and doubt are it).

In the end, I am optimistic, be it metaphorical or literal, that if they say it can be done in seven days that it may likely be an uncommon and very real, achievable aspiration. And I really tend to think that it comes down to our level of devotion to the practice. A half-assed commitment, though meritous, is not enough. Excuses won't take us there, nor will zeal without wisdom. The wise and dumb are capable.

How convinced are we in the dhamma? And it cycles back to "some suffer too much, some suffer too little".

Food for thought anyways,

Metta,

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IanAnd
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby IanAnd » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:49 pm

Last edited by IanAnd on Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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retrofuturist
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:01 pm

:goodpost:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Aloka » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:15 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:17 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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PadmaPhala
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby PadmaPhala » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:42 pm

metta IanAnd,

æ* feel like what 'am doing right now is more karma cleansing than anything else, and that by 28 æ should have arrived at the other side of the stream.

*phonetically same as english's I


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