Fourfold Sangha

[theravada_guy]

Greetings all,

Is this the fourfold sangha the Buddha founded?:

Bhikkhus - monks
Bhikkunis - nuns
Upasakas - male lay followers
Upasikas - female lay followers

Thanks!

[bodom]

The Fourfold Sangha consists of those on the path and those in attainment of the path thus making eight types of individuals:

(1) the path to stream-entry;
(2) the fruition of stream-entry;
(3) the path to once-returning ;
(4) the fruition of once-returning;
(5) the path to non-returning ;
(6) the fruition of non-returning;
(7) the path to arahantship ;
(8) the fruition of arahantship

Sangha

In the suttas the word sangha(lit. "group, assembly") is usually used in one of two ways: it refers either to the community of ordained monks and nuns (bhikkhu-sangha and bhikkhuni-sangha)or to the community of "noble ones" (ariya-sangha)— persons who have attained at least stream-entry, the first stage of Awakening.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/sangha.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

It gets awfully confusing how the Sangha is related in so many different ways.

Personally I prefer just to stick with Sangha (for the ordained) and Noble or Aryan Sangha (for those depicted in Bodom's list above).

Even then, I'm sure I could be more precise... but if I got more precise, would I just further add to the confusion?

Metta,
Retro.

[theravada_guy]

Wow, okay. I was totally wrong on that one. "Upasaka" and "upasika" are correct though, aren't they?

[bodom]

Wow, okay. I was totally wrong on that one. "Upasaka" and "upasika" are correct though, aren't they?

Yes those are the correct terms for male and female lay disciples.

[theravada_guy]

Okay, thanks bodom. Does what I mentioned have a name or label? "Fourfold..."? Community maybe?

[bodom]

Okay, thanks bodom. Does what I mentioned have a name or label? "Fourfold..."? Community maybe?

No Fourfold Sangha is correct. There are four types of noble persons. Sotāpanna, Sakadagami, Anāgāmi and Arahant. Hence Fourfold. It gets confusing because each stage is just divided into two phases: the path(magga), those still in training for Sotāpanna, Sakadagami atc. and its fruition(phala), those who have already attained Sotāpanna, Sakadagami, etc. So in actuality its the four types of noble persons and the eight kinds of individuals.

[theravada_guy]

Okay, but do the four things I mentioned (bhikkhus, bhikkunis, upasakas and upasikas) have a collective term?

[bodom]

Okay, but do the four things I mentioned (bhikkhus, bhikkunis, upasakas and upasikas) have a collective term?

Only Bhikkhus and Bhikkhunis are considered the Sangha. If a layman reaches Sotāpanna, Sakadagami etc, then he is considered part of the Ariya Sangha.

Sangha: The Ideal World Community by Ven. Prayudh Payutto

As soon as a person, whether a monk or a layman, realizes the Four Noble Truths and gains a first vision of Nibbana, he automatically becomes a Sotapanna and, simultaneously, a member of the Noble Sangha of disciples.

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/sangha.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[theravada_guy]

I think I confused this whole conversation with the term "sangha". Disregarding that term, do those four types of individuals I mentioned have a name, collectively speaking?

Also, since it's been brought up, do people still gain the first level of sainthood in these days? I don't know the Pali terms very well, even though I've read them numerous times. When I was a Hindu, I could remember most of the Sanskrit words I came across that were religious in nature (and there were a lot of terms I memorized) but for some reason, I'm having difficulty with the Pali words. In books, I just skip over the Pali terms because it kinda confuses me, or knocks off my concentration. I don't get it.

[Sylvester]

Okay, but do the four things I mentioned (bhikkhus, bhikkunis, upasakas and upasikas) have a collective term?

Hi, it's called the Catasso Parisa - the Fourfold Assembly.

With metta

[jcsuperstar]

these things get confusing especially in the west where sangha has come to mean any Buddhist. however as a side note i think it is important to remember when we take refuge the sangha mentioned (unless you want to take it differently as a personal choice) is the noble sangha (Sotāpanna, Sakadagami, Anāgāmi and Arahant.) those who are of noble status, not just any monk or Buddhist.

[theravada_guy]

Greetings jc,

Yeah, the notion of "all Buddhists are part of the sangha" is what threw me off on my question in my original post on this. What I realize now is, I think that view is more of a Vajrayana, rather than Theravada view. I don't know. I sometimes feel guilty for all the questions I have and the fact I can't really contribute to anyone elses' questions. I guess that's something I shouldn't worry about. Anyway, thanks to all who contributed to this. Any other thoughts are still welcome of course.

[Reductor]

I guess that's something I shouldn't worry about.

This is very true.

[bodom]

Greetings jc,

Yeah, the notion of "all Buddhists are part of the sangha" is what threw me off on my question in my original post on this. What I realize now is, I think that view is more of a Vajrayana, rather than Theravada view. I don't know. I sometimes feel guilty for all the questions I have and the fact I can't really contribute to anyone elses' questions. I guess that's something I shouldn't worry about. Anyway, thanks to all who contributed to this. Any other thoughts are still welcome of course.

How will you know if you dont ask?