I was asking you here in this context. As to the other thread, don't which one it is, so looking in it would be rather difficult.daverupa wrote:There's a whole thread about this elsewhere, within which I've posted. You can look there for my particular response.tiltbillings wrote:So, what about the Buddha's claims of knowing the truth of rebirth?
the great rebirth debate
- tiltbillings
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Re: No rebirth
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: No rebirth
Is it possible that the Buddha did not know about rebirth at all? If the Buddha knew rebirth, why did he not teach it more directly with more clarity like how it happens etc. so that people like us don't have to sit and debate like this?tiltbillings wrote: Now, since that is established, how about addressing the question: So, what about the Buddha's claims of knowing the truth of rebirth?
- tiltbillings
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Re: No rebirth
It looks clear to me. What I see a lot in this thread are those who cannot accept the Buddha taught rebirth because it flies in the face of what they can accept as being true and so they go through a lot of mental gymnastics to make their point (unconvincingly).BlueLotus wrote:Is it possible that the Buddha did not know about rebirth at all? If the Buddha knew rebirth, why did he not teach it more directly with more clarity like how it happens etc. so that people like us don't have to sit and debate like this?tiltbillings wrote: Now, since that is established, how about addressing the question: So, what about the Buddha's claims of knowing the truth of rebirth?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: the great rebirth debate
Wow. 128 pages
Here are my 5 cents:
There is a rebirth.
Here are my 5 cents:
There is a rebirth.
- retrofuturist
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Re: the great rebirth debate
Greetings,
Metta,
Retro.
... then there is no rebirth, then there is.Zom wrote:There is a rebirth.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
- Fede
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OMG! I'm not so special!
I hate to go all "Dr. Phil" on you, but one of his fine lessons is to turn to the person paralysed by the "What if..." question, and say -BlueLotus wrote:......
But what if there is no rebirth? What if life ends after death? I am still really confused about this
"People always ask the "What if" question - but they never answer it, or accept the obvious! So take your 'what if' question, and answer it!"
So, ok BlueLotus, Answer the question for yourself:
What IF there IS no rebirth? What IF life ends after Death?
So what?
What can you do about it?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: OMG! I'm not so special!
I'm going out on a limb here, and guessing that the majority of people here (and in the Buddhist world in general) have not directly seen for themselves how beings pass away and reappear according to their kamma, but rather (like myself) have faith in the Buddha's description of that, with that faith based on the fact that he seems to be right about everything else (ie, how the mind functions, how to become truly happier and at peace, etc...)BlueLotus wrote:But what if there is no rebirth? What if life ends after death? I am still really confused about thiscooran wrote:Hello all,
Constant rebirth is scary .... this wandering-on in Samsara.
manas.
cooran, I just saw your request. sorry but I had already written this (off topic) answer...
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
Re: the great rebirth debate
retrofuturist,retrofuturist wrote:]
... then there is no rebirth, then there is.
Metta,
Retro.
is this a paraphrase of a Donavan lyric?
chownah
Re: OMG! I'm not so special!
I think that ending rebirth is the goal....isn't it?....for an arahant there is no rebirth...isn't that right? Does this frighten you?....just wondering....BlueLotus wrote: But what if there is no rebirth? What if life ends after death? I am still really confused about this
chownah
Re: OMG! I'm not so special!
Ending suffering is the goal. Saying that the goal is ending rebirth is to take one particular explication of suffering (samsara) as total when the first noble truth says a bit more on the matter.chownah wrote:I think that ending rebirth is the goal....isn't it?....for an arahant there is no rebirth...isn't that right? Does this frighten you?....just wondering....BlueLotus wrote: But what if there is no rebirth? What if life ends after death? I am still really confused about this
chownah
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: OMG! I'm not so special!
Then there is no holy life, no path leading to the cessation of suffering, no Arahants who have put an end to rebirth, and no end to craving, aversion, and delusion. If life ends at death, then suffering ends at death, and there is no difference between an Arahant and an ordinary confused human being — both will attain the end of suffering at death.
- tiltbillings
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Re: the great rebirth debate
Yes, and this is a paraphrase of a Zen saying.chownah wrote:retrofuturist,retrofuturist wrote:]
... then there is no rebirth, then there is.
Metta,
Retro.
is this a paraphrase of a Donavan lyric?
chownah
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: No rebirth
I guess it's kind of similar to the possibility that Buddhist monasticism is intrinsically sexist.tiltbillings wrote: It looks clear to me. What I see a lot in this thread are those who cannot accept the Buddha taught rebirth because it flies in the face of what they can accept as being true and so they go through a lot of mental gymnastics to make their point (unconvincingly).
Where we are standing today do we need to have a good look to see if literal rebirth is still a relevant teaching in the same way that we look at continued gender discrimination as being unacceptable? Are these two things something that belong in a different age? Or are they fundamental?
Re: OMG! I'm not so special!
Does what frighten me?chownah wrote:I think that ending rebirth is the goal....isn't it?....for an arahant there is no rebirth...isn't that right? Does this frighten you?....just wondering....BlueLotus wrote: But what if there is no rebirth? What if life ends after death? I am still really confused about this
chownah
Re: OMG! I'm not so special!
No idea. If I knew that I wouldn't open the thread in the first placeFede wrote: What IF there IS no rebirth? What IF life ends after Death?
So what?
What can you do about it?