It is? Why?Jhana4 wrote:....... That theory and probably others are less wild than Hindu reincarnation of Buddhist rebirth.
M4
It is? Why?Jhana4 wrote:....... That theory and probably others are less wild than Hindu reincarnation of Buddhist rebirth.
because it makes fewer claims to be substantiated.Metta-4 wrote:It is? Why?Jhana4 wrote:....... That theory and probably others are less wild than Hindu reincarnation of Buddhist rebirth.
M4
This theory may also be applied to explain some vipassana insightsJhana4 wrote:... as he realized the mind sees what it or other people train it to see.
Interesting. Maybe this is why during near death experiences, an atheist meets Uncle George, a Christian seems Virgin Mary or Jesus, some Mahayana Buddhist sees Kwan Yin, and so on.TMingyur wrote:Off topic remark
This theory may also be applied to explain some vipassana insightsJhana4 wrote:... as he realized the mind sees what it or other people train it to see.
Gena1480,Gena1480 wrote:rebirth and death are thought not only by the Buddha but his disciples
by Ven. Kamabhu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
when a monk has died
his verbal fabrications having been there cease first
his body fabrications cease next
his mental fabrications cease next
his vital force ceases
his heat cease
his faculties are shut down or ceases
and in case a monk is reborn
the formula is used
not been there it arises,having been there it ceases
his faculties having been there, they cease
his faculties not having been there, they arise
his heat not having been there ,it arises
his vital force not having been there,it arises
his mental fabrications having not been there, they arise
his body fabrications having not been there, they arise
his verbal fabrications having not been there, they arise
BTW:Alex123 wrote:Interesting. Maybe this is why during near death experiences, an atheist meets Uncle George, a Christian seems Virgin Mary or Jesus, some Mahayana Buddhist sees Kwan Yin, and so on.TMingyur wrote:Off topic remark
This theory may also be applied to explain some vipassana insightsJhana4 wrote:... as he realized the mind sees what it or other people train it to see.
Taken as a whole I think the suttas support the view that the goal is both liberation from dukkha ( Nibbana ) and liberation from samsara ( Pari-nibbana ), and that these are 2 sides of the same coin rather than contradictory objectives.daverupa wrote:Ending suffering is the goal. Saying that the goal is ending rebirth is to take one particular explication of suffering (samsara) as total when the first noble truth says a bit more on the matter.chownah wrote:I think that ending rebirth is the goal....isn't it?....for an arahant there is no rebirth...isn't that right? Does this frighten you?....just wondering....BlueLotus wrote: But what if there is no rebirth? What if life ends after death? I am still really confused about this
chownah
Spiny O'Norman wrote:Taken as a whole I think the suttas support the view that the goal is both liberation from dukkha ( Nibbana ) and liberation from samsara ( Pari-nibbana ), and that these are 2 sides of the same coin rather than contradictory objectives.
Spiny
MN 22 wrote:
Both formerly and now, monks, I declare only stress and the cessation of stress.
SN 38.14 wrote:
"'Stress, stress,' it is said, my friend Sariputta. Which type of stress [are they referring to]?"
"There are these three forms of stressfulness, my friend: the stressfulness of pain, the stressfulness of fabrication, the stressfulness of change. These are the three forms of stressfulness."
SN 56.11 wrote:"Now this, monks, is the noble truth of stress: Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are stressful; association with the unbeloved is stressful, separation from the loved is stressful, not getting what is wanted is stressful. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are stressful.
I wonder why you are so interested in their personal beliefs, but according to the suttas, stream-enterers have right view and therefore see rebirth as truth. Maybe these guys are at this level, I wouldn't be surprised. But at the very least there must be others who are.Jhana4 wrote:Bhikkhu Bodhi and Thanisarro Bhikku are both Americans. Ajahn Brahm is from the U.K.. All three men are exceptionally intelligent and are very, very, very well educated. Interestingly, despite the western upbringing, the intelligence and the education all 3 have a strong belief in rebirth.
I am legitimately curious as to why that is the case.
Which suttas specifically say that all stream enterers see rebirth as truth?reflection wrote: but according to the suttas, stream-enterers have right view and therefore see rebirth as truth.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... 7.html#pt1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;25. "When, friends, a noble disciple understands birth, the origin of birth, the cessation of birth, and the way leading to the cessation of birth, in that way he is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma.
26. "And what is birth, what is the origin of birth, what is the cessation of birth, what is the way leading to the cessation of birth? The birth of beings into the various orders of beings, their coming to birth, precipitation [in a womb], generation, manifestation of the aggregates, obtaining the bases for contact — this is called birth. With the arising of being there is the arising of birth. With the cessation of being there is the cessation of birth. The way leading to the cessation of birth is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"Monks, there are these six rewards in realizing the fruit of stream-entry. Which six? One is certain of the true Dhamma. One is not subject to falling back. There is no suffering over what has had a limit placed on it. [1] One is endowed with uncommon knowledge. [2] One rightly sees cause, along with causally-originated phenomena.
"These are the six rewards in realizing the fruit of stream-entry."
9. Saying, "Good, friend," the bhikkhus delighted and rejoiced in the Venerable Sariputta's words. Then they asked him a further question: "But, friend, might there be another way in which a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma?" — "There might be, friends..."reflection wrote:25. "When, friends, a noble disciple understands birth, the origin of birth, the cessation of birth, and the way leading to the cessation of birth, in that way he is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma...
This is something usually assigned to stream enterers, see also the second sutta I quoted. Ergo, all parts of the Sammaditthi Sutta are describing the view of a stream enterer."When, friends, a noble disciple understands the unwholesome, the root of the unwholesome, the wholesome, and the root of the wholesome, in that way he is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma, and has arrived at this true Dhamma