Karma

[Luca123]

Can Karma be predicted quite accurately by arhants?
If not, how do we know how it works

[Sam Vara]

Can Karma be predicted quite accurately by arhants?

From Dhamma Wiki
Seven qualities of an Arahant:
1. The impermanence of all constructions is perfectly seen and comprehended.
2. The addiction of all sense desires is perfectly perceived and known.
3. His mind is only inclined towards solitude, seclusion, silent ease, and peace.
4. The Four Foundations of Mindfulness are continually and perfectly established.
5. The five mental faculties and strengths are thoroughly developed and consummated.
6. The Seven factors of enlightenment are utterly refined and fully accomplished.
7. The Noble Eightfold Middle Path is perfectly realized, acquired and all concluded.
(from Digha Nikaya 34)

So that one looks like a "no".

If not, how do we know how it works

We don't know it. In fact, even if the answer to your first question was "yes", we still couldn't know it unless we were ourselves arahants. The best we could do would be to infer it.

[dhammacoustic]

An arahant should have been through all the vipassanā-ñāṇas, according to Buddhaghosa these are;

- nāma·rūpa·pariccheda-ñāṇa (knowledge of material-mentality)
- paccaya·pariggaha-ñāṇa (cause-apprehending knowledge)
--------------------------------
- sammasana-ñāṇa (knowledge of comprehension)
- udayabbay·ānupassanā-ñāṇa (knowledge of arising and perishing)
- bharig·ānupassanā-ñāṇa (knowledge of dissolution)
- bhayat·upaṭṭhāna-ñāṇa (knowledge of fearsomeness appearance)
- ādinav·ānupassanā-ñāṇa (knowledge of danger)
- nibbid·ānupassanā-ñāṇa (knowledge of disenchantment)
- muñcitu·kamyāta-ñāṇa (knowledge of longing for release)
- paṭisaṅkh·ānupassanā-ñāṇa (knowledge of reflection)
- saṅkhār·upekkhā-ñāṇa (formations-equanimity knowledge)
--------------------------------
- anuloma-ñāṇa (knowledge of conformity)
- gotrabhu-ñāṇa (knowledge of change of lineage)
- magga-ñāṇa (knowledge of the path)
- phala-ñāṇa (knowledge of the fruition)
- paccavekkhaṇa-ñāṇa (knowledge of reviewing)

So yes, it could be said that they do know the workings of kamma in detail. So can they predict it? I don't think so, rather they can fully understand how it all works.

[Luca123]

Looks like there is confusion here
It is a yes or a no

[dhammacoustic]

Looks like there is confusion here
It is a yes or a no

Yes - they directly know kamma in the here and now, so they live accordingly.

No - they can't accurately predict it, they just know the dynamics of the system.

[Sam Vara]

Looks like there is confusion here
It is a yes or a no

Where is the confusion? And what is a yes or no?

[Luca123]

Looks like there is confusion here
It is a yes or a no

Yes - they directly know kamma in the here and now, so they live accordingly.

No - they can't accurately predict it, they just know the dynamics of the system.

How can they know the dynamics but cant predict?

[dhammacoustic]

How can they know the dynamics but cant predict?

An arahant is not a fortune teller. They have consummate knowledge of kammas and vipākas, which means they are fully aware how they got to that point in their lives, as well as where they're going - since they also possess the two supramundane knowledges, namely; magga-ñāṇa & phala-ñāṇa. They simply know this causes that, and that causes that regarding mental experience and continuum.

But what you're referring to requires a universal information package, which an arahant cannot possibly possess.

[Luca123]

How can they know the dynamics but cant predict?

An arahant is not a fortune teller. They have consummate knowledge of kammas and vipākas, which means they are fully aware how they got to that point in their lives, as well as where they're going - since they also possess the two supramundane knowledges, namely; magga-ñāṇa & phala-ñāṇa.

But what you're referring to requires a universal information package, which an arahant cannot possibly possess.

If they do not have that information package, ho can they test an know karma?

[dhammacoustic]

If they do not have that information package, ho can they test an know karma?

They can't 'test' it, they just directly understand/see it, and they're still bound by kamma (although they're mentally released).

[Luca123]

If they do not have that information package, ho can they test an know karma?

They can't 'test' it, they just directly understand/see it, and they're still bound by kamma (although they're mentally released).

If they see it they should know how it works

[dhammacoustic]

If they do not have that information package, ho can they test an know karma?

They can't 'test' it, they just directly understand/see it, and they're still bound by kamma (although they're mentally released).

If they see it they should know how it works

They know how it works, and they can tell you the particular vipāka of a particular kamma in terms of mental experience. They just don't exactly know what's out there, because it's not in their sensory experience.

You seem to be confusing knowledge with information.

[Coyote]

In AN 4.77, the results of kamma (kammavipāka) are said to be imponderable (acinteyya). I wonder what this means, both in regard to the insight-knowledges and the attainment of the divine eye?

[chownah]

Luca123,
Do you know that "karma" is the word used for the intention that arises and initiates action? Karma is just the beginning of the overall process. I think you are using the word "karma" to mean the entire process...but this is not correct. So....karma is the beginning of the process and the result is called the "fruition of karma". It seems that an arahant understands how intention arises....which is the same as saying that an arahant understands karma.........but......this does not mean that an arahant understands the exact working out of the fruition stage of the process.
I hope this clarifies something.
chownah

[Luca123]

Luca123,
Do you know that "karma" is the word used for the intention that arises and initiates action? Karma is just the beginning of the overall process. I think you are using the word "karma" to mean the entire process...but this is not correct. So....karma is the beginning of the process and the result is called the "fruition of karma". It seems that an arahant understands how intention arises....which is the same as saying that an arahant understands karma.........but......this does not mean that an arahant understands the exact working out of the fruition stage of the process.
I hope this clarifies something.
chownah

Why they do not know thefruition of the stage?