Aspects of defilements (asaavas, yogas, oghas)

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phil
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Aspects of defilements (asaavas, yogas, oghas)

Post by phil »

Hi all

Have you found that reflecting on the different aspects (if that is the right way to put it) of defilements such as assavas (cankers, leakages) yogas (yokes) and oghas (floods) has been helpful? I like to conceptualize…

Thanks

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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Sam Vara
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Re: Aspects of defilements (asaavas, yogas, oghas)

Post by Sam Vara »

phil wrote:Hi all

Have you found that reflecting on the different aspects (if that is the right way to put it) of defilements such as assavas (cankers, leakages) yogas (yokes) and oghas (floods) has been helpful? I like to conceptualize…

Thanks

Phil
Yes, I find it an extremely helpful way to conceptualise the practice. And don't forget anusayas!

If you haven't read it, Ajahn Sucitto's book on Parami
http://forestsanghapublications.org/ass ... Parami.pdf
takes this as a major theme: perfections as "a way to cross life's floods". Well worth reading. Sucitto's dhamma talks also return to this theme quite often, and you might also want to look at some of his audio files on the Cittaviveka website and elsewhere.
daverupa
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Re: Aspects of defilements (asaavas, yogas, oghas)

Post by daverupa »

I consider those sorts of term-realms to be shotgun patterns defining a particular sort of phenomenological tenor for a given experience of unwholesome-ness. An upwelling of anger or grief can indeed feel like a hideous sluice.

Rather than e.g. "the asavas" comprising a list of discreet fetter-entities, I see them as descriptions of various ways sewage can flow underneath & pour out of openings, and it's up to me to spot this in the field, as it were, based on Dhamma guidebook descriptions, in order to properly deal with the biohazard of it, both in potentia as well as in esse.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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phil
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Re: Aspects of defilements (asaavas, yogas, oghas)

Post by phil »

Hi Sam Vera, Dave Rupa, all

Thanks for yourfeedback.

Re anusayas, it's reminds me that another classification is about the degree to which the defilements have arisen, whether latent, arising (medium?)or of the degree that conditions transgression. Without having really studied them yet, it seems like asaavas are like the arising degree that boil to the surface occasionaly and might result in the transgressional degree.

Thanks for the links. First I think I will read the chapters on different groups of defilements that are explained by Nina Van Gorkom in her book Cetasikas:

http://www.vipassana.info/cetasikas.html

See chapters 21-23 on diiferent groups of defilements.


Some would say that getting caught up in these conceptualizations or intellectualization's of defilements is getting trapped too much thinking about them but as far as I can see there is always thinking about dhammas rather then experiencing them directly ...for me at least. That's where my ( so to speak) understanding is at still.

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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phil
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Re: Aspects of defilements (asaavas, yogas, oghas)

Post by phil »

Hi all

I quote from "Cetasikas":
The akusala cetasikas which are attachment, wrong view and ignorance are classified in different groups: as four cankers, four floods and four yokes. Each of these groups consists of the same defilements, but different aspects are shown by these classifications. The cankers flow or "exude", or they are like intoxicants. The floods are dangerous, they can drown us, they sweep us away into the ocean of rebirths. The yokes tie us to the cycle of birth and death.
For me from my reading of the related chapter, asaavas almost feel like a vapour cloud of kilesa that constantly enshrouds the mind, with few openings, starting from the first javanas of a lifetime which are ( the book notes) invariably rooted in lobha. The floods sweep us back into ocean of rebirths, the yokes tie us to it...

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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