Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

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Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby SarathW » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:07 am

I just listened to a Dhamma talk by Sri Lankan Buddhist monk (in Sinhalese Language). He said drinking alcohol and eating meat is not an unwholesome activity. He said that he does not say drinking alcohol is good.
Throughout the surmon he never mentioned that alchol lead to headlessnes.

The question I have is.

a) Where does drinking alcohol is fitting in Noble Eightfold Path
b) Did Buddha proclaim the Five Precepts and which Sutta do you find it?

:thinking:
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby cooran » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:32 am

Hello SarathW,

The Five Precepts are in this Sutta.

Abhisanda Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

With metta,
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:02 am

Taking intoxicants is not included in the ten immoral kammas (dasākusala kammapaṭhā), but it leads to other unwholesome kammas and heedlessness.

A Talk on Intoxicants

However, it is stated as the cause of rebirth in hell, if done frequently or habitually.
“Monks, drinking intoxicants, if done frequently or habitually, leads to rebirth in hell, rebirth as an animal or as a hungry ghost. At the very least, the result of this evil deed when born as a human being is that one becomes a mad person.”¹
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby SarathW » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:37 am

Dear Cooran and Bhante Pesala

Thank you for your prompt reply.
This particular monk is talking about the Buddha's final word:

Sabba papassa akaranam,
Kusalassa upasampada,
Sacitta-pariyodapanam,
Etam Buddhanusasanam


[Sabba (All) papassa (evil) a (no) karanam (do)
Kusalassa (Good) upasampada (do, cultivate)
Sacitta (one's mind) pariyodapanam (purify)
Etam (this is) Buddha (Buddha's) anusasanam (advice )]
=============
His argument was drinking alcohol is not included in the first phrase "Sabba papassa akaranam"
I do not agree with him because this include the Panca Sila (five precepts)

He was talking about the five hindarances in the second phrase "Kusalassa upasampada" without mention about drinking alcohol.
I appreciate your input.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:27 pm

kindly check and let me know if buddha mentioned Alcohol consumtion in Nobel eightfold path. check MAGGA VIBHANGA SUTTA / SACHCHA VIBHANGA SUTTA / CHUNDA KAMMARAPUTTA SUTTA ..etc. even Coca Cola has certain alcoho percentage is it an UNWHOLSOME DEED? people get toxicated by weatlh, beauty,money,power,postions. i recently hear that one of the murderes was a non alcoholic, vegeterian.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:39 pm

i would like to tell you all that PANCHA SILA is not a buddha deshana, where does it mentione about gossips in pancha sila? abusive speech? . totaly there are 7 percepts. check the suttas where buddha has described NOBEL EIGHTFOLD PATH. you will know.

3 bodily actions and 4 verbal actions (total 7)

Metta
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby ajohn4717 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:47 pm

SarathW wrote:I just listened to a Dhamma talk by Sri Lankan Buddhist monk (in Sinhalese Language). He said drinking alcohol and eating meat is not an unwholesome activity. He said that he does not say drinking alcohol is good.
Throughout the surmon he never mentioned that alchol lead to headlessnes.

The question I have is.

a) Where does drinking alcohol is fitting in Noble Eightfold Path
b) Did Buddha proclaim the Five Precepts and which Sutta do you find it?

:thinking:



One of the Five Precepts in Buddhism warns against taking intoxicants causing heedlessness. But since these are precepts and not commandments, every Buddhist has to approach them in their own way. Some Buddhists refrain from alcohol and drugs altogether, and some are casual/social drinkers.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby zamotcr » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:31 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Taking intoxicants is not included in the ten immoral kammas (dasākusala kammapaṭhā), but it leads to other unwholesome kammas and heedlessness.

A Talk on Intoxicants

However, it is stated as the cause of rebirth in hell, if done frequently or habitually.
“Monks, drinking intoxicants, if done frequently or habitually, leads to rebirth in hell, rebirth as an animal or as a hungry ghost. At the very least, the result of this evil deed when born as a human being is that one becomes a mad person.”


Hi Bhante,

This seems to be later than earlier. It is said that in early sangha alcohol was not forbidden. Monks were allowed to accept booze. (Source: http://huayanzang.blogspot.it/2012/03/why-did-buddha-prohibit-alcohol.html)

So why it would lead you to hell for example? As I understand, what could leave you to hell are the actions done while drunk...
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:13 pm

Why would drinking alcohol lead to car accidents?

Driving a car is a relatively simple task, that most can do without accidents. However, add even a small amount of alcohol to the equation and the risks increase significantly.

Controlling the mind is a difficult task, that most cannot do without accidents. Add even a small amount of alcohol to the equation, let alone frequent and habitual use, and the chances of controlling the mind diminish exponentially.

There are other forms of intoxication, which are equally dangerous, or even more dangerous — fame, power, pride, etc. Alcohol taken frequently and habitually will destroy any sense of urgency regarding the spiritual quest, quite apart from the actual physical harm to one's health.

The early Saṅgha were all Noble Ones who knew without being told that sexual intercourse, using money, drinking intoxicants, wrong-livelihood, etc., were unsuitable for one gone forth as a recluse (see the Upakkilesa Sutta, Book of Fours). It was only later, when men with inferior perfections, or with ulterior motives, joined the Saṅgha that rules needed to be laid down and only after transgressions had been made.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby zamotcr » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:29 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Why would drinking alcohol lead to car accidents?

Driving a car is a relatively simple task, that most can do without accidents. However, add even a small amount of alcohol to the equation and the risks increase significantly.

Controlling the mind is a difficult task, that most cannot do without accidents. Add even a small amount of alcohol t

o the equation, let alone frequent and habitual use, and the chances of controlling the mind diminish exponentially.

There are other forms of intoxication, which are equally dangerous, or even more dangerous — fame, power, pride, etc. Alcohol taken frequently and habitually will destroy any sense of urgency regarding the spiritual quest, quite apart from the actual physical harm to one's health.

The early Saṅgha were all Noble Ones who knew without being told that sexual intercourse, using money, drinking intoxicants, wrong-livelihood, etc., were unsuitable for one gone forth as a recluse (see the Upakkilesa Sutta, Book of Fours). It was only later, when men with inferior perfections, or with ulterior motives, joined the Saṅgha that rules needed to be laid down and only after transgressions had been made.


Drinking is not the same as drunken.

You can safely drink one cup of wine and still be able to legally drive and safely. You're making wrong assumptions.

Wine is good to the heart. I know quite a few people who drink and still are very spiritual, the thing is different is you're drunk every time. But I don't see how moderate wine or beer, can lead you to hell. Makes absolutely no sense.

Of course if you are always drunk is highly probable you would do bad bad things because you are not on your own and this can lead to hell. But for one drink you loose control and ethics? No way. I don't drink because I don't like it and I took the 5 precepts, but I don't see nothing harmful for occasional drink.

Drink occasionally is not equal to be drunk.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby vishuroshan » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:09 am

guys, i wud like to show you another point. murderers or any other criminal does not drink when planning the crime (robery/murder/rape..etc). but sometimes just before they proceed with the crime they take alcoholo to make their minds to that state. all the alocoholic people are not criminals who do unwholsome deeds. again CHETANA(intention) is the KAMMA.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:20 am

zamotcr wrote:I don't see how moderate wine or beer, can lead you to hell. Makes absolutely no sense.

That's not what the Buddha said, and it's not what I quoted him as saying, is it?
“Monks, drinking intoxicants, if done frequently or habitually, leads to rebirth in hell, rebirth as an animal or as a hungry ghost. At the very least, the result of this evil deed when born as a human being is that one becomes a mad person.”

As for one glass of wine not affecting your driving, you should check up on the facts.
  • Any alcohol, even a small drink, will impair driving ability.
  • Alcohol takes effect quickly but wears off slowly.
  • The only safe course is not to drink and drive.
  • Alcohol is quickly absorbed into the bloodstream, affecting the brain and impairing driving ability.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby vishuroshan » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:32 am

buddha said it to monks. Monk is a person who wears a yellow robe and is a synmol of purity. if you refer DHAMMAPADA, you will come across with some sermons of buddha to monks saying that monk cannot even indulge in sensual pleasures. that because they show their purity to the world. and they cannot stay as a lay prson. if he lives like a lay person, because of Cheating, lying, he will go to hell.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby Babadhari » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:33 pm

what part of 'refrain from taking intoxicants' dont you understand?


have you ever heard alcohol referred to as intoxocating liquor
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby Mkoll » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:50 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Why would drinking alcohol lead to car accidents?

Driving a car is a relatively simple task, that most can do without accidents. However, add even a small amount of alcohol to the equation and the risks increase significantly.

Controlling the mind is a difficult task, that most cannot do without accidents. Add even a small amount of alcohol to the equation, let alone frequent and habitual use, and the chances of controlling the mind diminish exponentially.

There are other forms of intoxication, which are equally dangerous, or even more dangerous — fame, power, pride, etc. Alcohol taken frequently and habitually will destroy any sense of urgency regarding the spiritual quest, quite apart from the actual physical harm to one's health.

The early Saṅgha were all Noble Ones who knew without being told that sexual intercourse, using money, drinking intoxicants, wrong-livelihood, etc., were unsuitable for one gone forth as a recluse (see the Upakkilesa Sutta, Book of Fours). It was only later, when men with inferior perfections, or with ulterior motives, joined the Saṅgha that rules needed to be laid down and only after transgressions had been made.

:goodpost:

Thank you Bhante, very well put. I like the comparison you drew between driving and mental training.

:anjali:
Peace,
James
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby SarathW » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:13 pm

Please find the link where it says in Noble Eightfold Path (NEP) that taking intoxicant is bad.

They are called Virati, abstinences. They are Sammāvācā
(right speech), Sammā-kammanta (right action) and
Sammā-ājīva (right livelihood). You are very familiar with
these three mental factors because they are included in the
eight factors of the Noble Path.
“Abstinence by undertaking precepts is the abstinence
from evil deeds because one has undertaken to observe
precepts, for example, the five precepts of abstaining from
killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, false speech, and
intoxicants.”

Page: 289
http://buddhispano.net/sites/default/fi ... dies-I.pdf
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby zamotcr » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:01 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
zamotcr wrote:I don't see how moderate wine or beer, can lead you to hell. Makes absolutely no sense.

That's not what the Buddha said, and it's not what I quoted him as saying, is it?
“Monks, drinking intoxicants, if done frequently or habitually, leads to rebirth in hell, rebirth as an animal or as a hungry ghost. At the very least, the result of this evil deed when born as a human being is that one becomes a mad person.”

As for one glass of wine not affecting your driving, you should check up on the facts.
  • Any alcohol, even a small drink, will impair driving ability.
  • Alcohol takes effect quickly but wears off slowly.
  • The only safe course is not to drink and drive.
  • Alcohol is quickly absorbed into the bloodstream, affecting the brain and impairing driving ability.


Thanks Bhante, I didnt read the quote from the Buddha.

What I was trying to said before is not that drinking alcohol is good, because it is not. Some studies suggest wine is good to the heart, but Buddha said that to the mind is not good.
What I was saying is that alcohol, by itself, is just a thing, like a rock, like water or a knife, neither good or bad, but the effects of consuming alcohol could lead us to make bad actions, and such actions could deliver us to hell, but not just the alcohol. Because, if someone depends upon a medicine, that has alcohol as one of the ingredients, I won't believe that person will reborn in hell, because his intentions are different than just drinking booze. So in this sense, as I believe things are neutral, neither good or bad, what make something bad or good are our intentions when using those things, but things are just that things.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby SarathW » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:14 am

Surprisingly Bhikkhu Bodhi is silent about consumption of intoxicants in his NEP:

Right Action (samma kammanta)
Right action means refraining from unwholesome deeds that occur with the body as their natural means of expression. The pivotal element in this path factor is the mental factor of abstinence, but because this abstinence applies to actions performed through the body, it is called “right action.” The Buddha mentions three components of right action: abstaining from taking life, abstaining from taking what is not given, and abstaining from sexual misconduct.

Page 49:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/noble8path6.pdf
:shrug:
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby santa100 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:37 am

Ven. Bodhi's unequivocal position on drinking: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ay_36.html
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