Ending the path is ending desire.

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dude_different
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Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby dude_different » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:04 am

But if you end desire, why would you want to procreate? For love? Perhaps i am mistaken but i seem to recall having read in a sutta that love too must be abandoned? Also, even though ending desire is ending the path some thin desire have to exist after Nirvana as why would the Buddha help people reach Nirvana if he didnt desire to help them? I seem to recall having read other examples aswell...

So would humankind die out if everyone reached Nirvana?

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cooran
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby cooran » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:23 am

Hello dd,

What Nibbana is, is difficult to understand.

This might be a start:

Nibbana
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... bbana.html

With metta,
Chris
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chownah
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby chownah » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:35 am

Would humankind die out if the sun exploded?.........and when that happens will it be????????..........how do you view the prospect of humanity dieing out when the sun explodes? You probably think it is boring and a waste of time to think about humanity dying out from the sun exploding......so is thinking about humanity dying out from nirvana exploding some how more interesting?.......more likely for the sun to explode before nirvana does.

If it starts to look like there are not enough human breeders I am sure that someone will come up with a solution........if anyone cares.

chownah

dude_different
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby dude_different » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:09 am

Hey cooran. I have read a lot about what Nirvana is(or Nibbana if you like the pali-terminology). And on the first definition on the page you link to it says this:

"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana."
— AN 3.32

Craving is another word for desire am i not correct? I have noticed in the suttas, sometimes it says craving sometime it says desire...

So my question still stands: Is it right for humans to seek the Truth when if reaching it we stop making babies??

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Ben
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby Ben » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:13 am

dude_different wrote:Is it right for humans to seek the Truth when if reaching it we stop making babies??


What is so great about making babies?
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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dude_different
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby dude_different » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:21 am

Ben wrote:
dude_different wrote:Is it right for humans to seek the Truth when if reaching it we stop making babies??


What is so great about making babies?


HAHAHAHAHA. I don't even know what to say to that.. Well i haven't slept tonight either so that might have something to do with it. I'll try answering this in a day or two :P Anyway, two-thumbs up!!

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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby plwk » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:41 am

Is it right for humans to seek the Truth when if reaching it we stop making babies??


What is so great about making babies?
Tsk tsk Ben...For the continuity of enslavement in perpetuity of the human race for cats. Who's gonna keep the cheezburger flowing? :mrgreen:

But from a human perspective? Diapers, sleepless nights, tons of baby formula milk and drooling all over your favourite furniture looking cute and then later putting up with fascist teens and then debts & mortgages for their education. And that's just the standard procedure. I won't even start about the ones that go the psychedelic road...

But oh yes! My culture teaches me that the above is my 'duty', 'obligation' to the State...so must make babies :thinking:
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

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seeker242
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby seeker242 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:22 am

dude_different wrote:But if you end desire, why would you want to procreate? For love? Perhaps i am mistaken but i seem to recall having read in a sutta that love too must be abandoned? Also, even though ending desire is ending the path some thin desire have to exist after Nirvana as why would the Buddha help people reach Nirvana if he didnt desire to help them? I seem to recall having read other examples aswell...



You wouldn't want to procreate! But love, in the context of "helping others" is not abandoned. It's a different kind of love that is abandoned, the self centered kind, the clinging kind. The kind that can lead to jealousy, etc. Some people just call it "greed" or "lust".

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Dan74
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby Dan74 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:35 pm

I think we inevitably get the wrong end of the stick with the whole desire shebang.

While we spend our lives chasing tangibles and intangibles, in Dhamma many of us try to convince ourselves that all these things we are attached to are meaningless, including our loved ones. A very strange conflicted position to be in, isn't it?

I think it is more honest to face our circumstances directly, rather than glancing at them awkwardly sideways. Give ourselves completely, rather than engage half-heartedly. Open our hearts and allow ourselves to be completely vulnerable, rather than protect ourselves in cloaks of dispassion and disengagement.

This honest engagement is more likely to bring about insight and equanimity that cultivating aversion and misguided detachment.

I love my family and children. I think they are are great teachers, great mirrors and wonderful companions. Learning to give myself fully to them is a wonderful Dhamma practice. But most importantly this is my life. Is there practice apart from it?
_/|\_

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Sam Vara
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby Sam Vara » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:21 pm

:goodpost:

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Kusala
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby Kusala » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:16 am

dude_different wrote:But if you end desire, why would you want to procreate? For love? Perhaps i am mistaken but i seem to recall having read in a sutta that love too must be abandoned? Also, even though ending desire is ending the path some thin desire have to exist after Nirvana as why would the Buddha help people reach Nirvana if he didnt desire to help them? I seem to recall having read other examples aswell...

So would humankind die out if everyone reached Nirvana?


Nagasena's take on Nirvana... http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut045.htm#nature

"Nirvana shares one quality with the lotus, two with water, three with medicine, ten with space, three with the wishing jewel, and five with a mountain peak. As the lotus is unstained by water, so is Nirvana unstained by all the defilements. As cool water allays feverish heat, so also Nirvana is cool and allays the fever of all the passions. Moreover, as water removes the thirst of men and beasts who are exhausted, parched, and thirsty, and overpowered by heat, so also Nirvana removes the craving for sensuous enjoyments, the craving for further becoming, the craving for the cessation of becoming. As medicine protects from the torments of poisons, so Nirvana protects from the torments of the poisonous passions.

Moreover, as medicine puts an end to sickness, so Nirvana puts an end to all sufferings. Finally, Nirvana and medicine both give security. And these are the ten qualities which Nirvana shares with space. Neither is born, grows old, dies, passes away, or is reborn; both are unconquerable, cannot be stolen, are unsupported, are roads respectively for birds and Arhats to journey on, are unobstructed and infinite. Like the wishing jewel, Nirvana grants all one can desire, brings joy, and sheds light. As a mountain peak is lofty and exalted, so is Nirvana. As a mountain peak is unshakeable, so is Nirvana. As a mountain is inaccessible, so is Nirvana inaccessible to all the passions. As no seeds can grow on a mountain peak, so the seeds of all the passions cannot grow in Nirvana. And finally, as a mountain peak is free from all desire to please or displease, so is Nirvana!"
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ricebowl
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Re: Ending the path is ending desire.

Postby ricebowl » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:55 pm

dude_different wrote:But if you end desire, why would you want to procreate? For love? Perhaps i am mistaken but i seem to recall having read in a sutta that love too must be abandoned? Also, even though ending desire is ending the path some thin desire have to exist after Nirvana as why would the Buddha help people reach Nirvana if he didnt desire to help them? I seem to recall having read other examples aswell...

So would humankind die out if everyone reached Nirvana?

I was just telling another human being that there are 7 billion human beings on this planet while less than 50,000 lions roaming earth including the zoos. The lions ain't worried about procreation, they do it when they like it, why would we worry about the 7 billion ?


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