On the nature of arahatship: further questions

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Re: On the nature of arahatship: further questions

Postby daverupa » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:12 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:Then how would you reconcile what Dipa Ma says... It's hard to believe that she was deluded and yet so respected...


I would hold her words against the suttas, and so it would go. As for things that are hard to believe, well, that can turn out in one of two ways in the course of things.

:shrug:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: On the nature of arahatship: further questions

Postby pegembara » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:11 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:
barcsimalsi wrote:Actions conducive to happiness still implies decision making which involves desire to be happy. Besides, arahants are said to be perfectly mindful every moment which means their actions cannot derive from spontaneous tendency.

Despite of many good replies above, i still failed to understand how to distinguish preference from craving. Can anyone please explain more? please.......


Although not quite the same as one of my questions, it's interesting in itself and I would like to know what others have to say. Probably they enjoy pleasant sensations without craving. When Dipa Ma was asked something of the sort, she answered that now she enjoyed life even more.

Another interesting question is "would an arahat want to avoid unpleasant sensations?" One possibility is that they would prefer pleasant sensations, but wouldn't prefer not to have unpleasant ones. The other is that they would prefer pleasant sensations and would prefer not to have unpleasant sensations.


The arahant still has feelings but is not controlled by them. He can still enjoy life but does not actively seek out pleasant/neutral or actively avoid unpleasant feelings. He is still capable of choosing one thing over another. Unlike an ordinary beings, he is freed from the seeking behaviour.

"A pleasant feeling is inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing. A painful feeling is also inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing. A neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling is also inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing.

"Seeing this, an instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with pleasant feeling, disenchanted with painful feeling, disenchanted with neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. From dispassion, he is released. With release, there is the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns, 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.' A monk whose mind is thus released does not take sides with anyone, does not dispute with anyone. He words things by means of what is said in the world but without grasping at it."
"A pleasant feeling is inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing. A painful feeling is also inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing. A neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling is also inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing.

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And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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