2 and 3 noble truths

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2 and 3 noble truths

Postby purple planet » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:50 pm

Can you explain to me in short what are the 2 and 3 noble truths - i use to think the second one is the reason for dukkha is attachment and the third is that you can stop attachment by letting go - which made me think the 3 truth is stating the obvious

so now i read more about them and its not that simple i guess - can you explain to me in a short and simple way what this two mean
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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Re: 2 and 3 noble truths

Postby clw_uk » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:55 pm

purple planet wrote:Can you explain to me in short what are the 2 and 3 noble truths - i use to think the second one is the reason for dukkha is attachment and the third is that you can stop attachment by letting go - which made me think the 3 truth is stating the obvious

so now i read more about them and its not that simple i guess - can you explain to me in a short and simple way what this two mean



The third noble truth is about recognising that when craving ends, so does the dukkha

This leads onto the 4th noble truth, that path that leads to the letting go of everything, and so no more dukkha


The third noble truth is to be experienced


It's only through observing that there is dukkha, that it arises through craving and ceases through non-attachment does one embark on fullfilling the nefp

Which then leads to observing more dukkha, seeing that it arises through craving and ceases through not craving


And so on in a feedback loop until there is no more craving
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: 2 and 3 noble truths

Postby clw_uk » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:58 pm

"Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of the origination of stress'... 'This noble truth of the origination of stress is to be abandoned' [2] ... 'This noble truth of the origination of stress has been abandoned.'

"Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of the cessation of stress'... 'This noble truth of the cessation of stress is to be directly experienced'... 'This noble truth of the cessation of stress has been directly experienced.'



The origin of stress is to be abandoned, experience that when the origin ends then the stress ends, and practice to end that stress



I.e. through just resting with things as they are in the present moment, be fully aware


Then you are not deceived by dhammas and so you no longer crave or cling
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: 2 and 3 noble truths

Postby cooran » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:09 pm

Hello PP,

This might be of interest:
http://www.buddhanet.net/4noble.htm

Wi th metta,
Chris
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Re: 2 and 3 noble truths

Postby Tex » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:23 am

This doesn't fit your request for a short and simple explanation, but here's another worthwhile study guide:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/truths.html
"The serene and peaceful mind is the true epitome of human achievement."-- Ajahn Chah, Living Dhamma

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi
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Re: 2 and 3 noble truths

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:45 am

“Letting go,” is an over-simplification of the Third Noble Truth. It is not that easy to realise nibbāna. We can experience temporary relief when we “let go,” of grasping, but then we immediately grasp onto something else, like a monkey travelling through the forest letting go of one branch, only to grab hold of another one.

This is what the Dhammacakka Sutta says:
"Idaṃ kho pana, bhikkhave, dukkhanirodhaṃ ariyasaccaṃ: yo tassāyeva tanhāya asesavirāganirodho cāgo patinissaggo mutti anālayo."

"This, monks, is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering: the cessation of craving without any remainder, giving it up, renouncing it, and complete freedom from it."

Realisation of the Third Noble Truth will come only when the Path is well-developed.
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Re: 2 and 3 noble truths

Postby pegembara » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:15 am

2. Now what is the noble truth of the origination of stress? The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.

3. And what is the noble truth of the cessation of stress? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving.

Craving for sensuality is the craving for sense experiences through sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch (via the 5 senses) and thoughts, emotions, feelings, meditative experiences eg. the jhanas etc (beyond the 5 senses).

Craving for becoming and non becoming is craving for existence (atta/being) and non existence (anatta/non being). The two are related. It is clinging to the idea of self and no self. To deny the self is to imply its existence. Hence the teaching of Ajahn Chah "Don't be anything. If you are unenlightened, you suffer. If you are enlightened you also suffer."

"'Everything exists': That is one extreme. 'Everything doesn't exist': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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