Is self view, a self fulfilling prophecy?

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Is self view, a self fulfilling prophecy?

Postby SarathW » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:12 am

Is self view, a self fulfilling prophecy?
Please forgive me for bringing this hot topic question that never seems to get an answer.
But I am asking the question in a different angle.
If my present existence is due to my past ignorance (self view – not knowing four noble truths etc) then I can say that I have a self.
If I do not eliminate the self view in this life I will continue in to the future.
Though there is no permanent and unchanging entity, the thought “I” will continue in to the future or my ignorance (self view) continue to the future.
“I think so I am”
So based on that assumption, can I say that I have a self view so I have a self until I attain Nirvana?
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Re: Is self view, a self fulfilling prophecy?

Postby chownah » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:14 am

I'm not sure but I think you are saying that a self view causes a self to exist. I think that generally speaking views do not cause things to exist....views are just views, they are not causative agents......I guess.....don't know for sure.......
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Re: Is self view, a self fulfilling prophecy?

Postby pegembara » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:46 am

We determine things into existence through use of conventions. We see a small child lost in a forest but the tiger sees food. Me, you, he, she, mom, dad are all conventions and only exist in our minds. In the same way self is a convention. This does not mean that there is nothing out there but the way to freedom is inwards.

You have a self view so you have a self until you attain Nirvana. That attainment is always here and now; not some time in the future.The Dhamma is Sanditthiko(Apparent here and now), Akaliko(Timeless), Ehipassiko(Encouraging investigation), Opanayiko(Leading inwards), Paccattam veditabbo vinnuhi ti (To be experienced by the wise).

Appearances are determined into existence. Why must we determine them? Because they don't intrinsically exist. For example, suppose somebody wanted to make a marker. He would take a piece of wood or a rock and place it on the ground, and then call it a marker. Actually it's not a marker. There isn't any marker, that's why you must determine it into existence. In the same way we ''determine'' cities, people, cattle - everything! Why must we determine these things? Because originally they do not exist.

Concepts such as ''monk'' and ''layperson'' are also ''determinations.'' We determine these things into existence because intrinsically they aren't here. It's like having an empty dish - you can put anything you like into it because it's empty. This is the nature of determined reality. Men and women are simply determined concepts, as are all the things around us.

If we know the truth of determinations clearly, we will know that there are no beings, because ''beings'' are determined things. Understanding that these things are simply determinations, you can be at peace. But if you believe that the person, being, the ''mine,'' the ''theirs,'' and so on are intrinsic qualities, then you must laugh and cry over them. These are the proliferation of conditioning factors. If we take such things to be ours there will always be suffering. This is micch?ditthi, wrong view. Names are not intrinsic realities, they are provisional truths. Only after we are born do we obtain names, isn't that so? Or did you have your name already when you were born? The name comes afterwards, right? Why must we determine these names? Because intrinsically they aren't there. ... cle/480/P4
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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