Suffering and cessation

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
heraclito27
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Suffering and cessation

Postby heraclito27 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:26 am

If I understand correctly, the end of suffering is dispassion and as a consequence cessation of all experiences.

pegembara
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Re: Suffering and cessation

Postby pegembara » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:30 am

The end of suffering is the end of grasping to all that is experienced as me, mine and myself. The extinguishment of greed, hatred and delusion. Not cessation of all experiences.

"And this, monks, is the noble truth of the cessation of stress: the remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted at his words. And while this explanation was being given, the hearts of the 1,000 monks, through no clinging (not being sustained), were fully released from fermentation/effluents.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Last edited by pegembara on Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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reflection
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Re: Suffering and cessation

Postby reflection » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:09 am


heraclito27
Posts: 18
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Re: Suffering and cessation

Postby heraclito27 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:30 pm

But pegembara, as @reflection cite It's passion the fuel that keep the beings in existence, without that fuel, existence extinguish, no more reborn.

The cause of dispassion is the end of ignorance of the three marks of existence:
-All experiences are impermanent.
-All experiences are suffering.
-All experiences are not-self.

If all experiences are impermanent, suffering and not-self, there is no reason to crave for more experiences, for more existence, this causes the cessation.

The teaching is very radical in the sense that is not possible to fix existence, you can't tweak this or that, become this or that and things are going to be ok. All form of existence is inherently marked with suffering, the only solution is the end of it.

Is my understanding correct?

obo
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Re: Suffering and cessation

Postby obo » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:35 pm

Hello Heraclito,

You have this partly correctly and partly not.

On the one hand it is said: 'The end of bhava (existence, experience, being, living, becoming) is Nibbana'.

On the other hand Gotama defines bhava as being a product of the indivitual grounded in blindness acting with the intent to create personal experience for himself by way of thought, word and deed.

So what Gotama is saying is that all that is understood to be existence is personal existence.

This is not the way we are acustomed today to think of the idea of existence, but it is necessary to put one's self in this frame of mind to understand how it can be that the goal, Nibbana, can be a consciousness without identification, un-made, but not unconditioned.

Here you need to correct your translation of the three characteristics:

It is not all "experience" anything, it is:

All sankharas are transient
All sankharas are pain
All dhammas (things) are not-self.

The word 'sankhara' has been erroneously translated as 'conditioned' by virtually every translator to date, but this is an incorrect translation. The word means 'con-structed' or 'own-made'.

If you use the awkward translation 'own-made' you will see that what is being spoken of as this consciousness that is not identified with is conditioned, (paccaya), but not (sankharaed). It is conditioned by following the Magga, which results in the elimination of sankharaing, or the creation of a personal world, or what Gotama is referring to as 'experience'.

pegembara
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Re: Suffering and cessation

Postby pegembara » Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:47 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

ToVincent
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Re: Suffering and cessation

Postby ToVincent » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:30 am

Rumination on Suffering & Cessation
https://justpaste.it/zh8a

Moo
We are all possessed - more or less.
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And what, bhikkhu, is inward rottenness? Here someone is immoral, one of evil character, of impure and suspect behaviour, secretive in his acts, no ascetic though claiming to be one, not a celibate though claiming to be one, inwardly rotten, corrupt, depraved. This is called inward rottenness.”
SN 35.241
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Just as a chunk of salt, cast in water, loses its form and keeps only its taste; so does one who deals with the deathless loses himself in that reality.
------
https://justpaste.it/j5o4

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cappuccino
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Re: Suffering and cessation

Postby cappuccino » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:17 am

Suffering increases the more you identify.


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