Early translation of Pali

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Early translation of Pali

Postby ccharles » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:06 pm

When westerners first encountered the Pali language, how were they able to translate it?
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:20 pm

ccharles wrote:When westerners first encountered the Pali language, how were they able to translate it?
Sanskrit was a known language.

What is the use of his knowledge
pertaining to the number of insects in the whole world?
Rather, inquire into his knowledge of
that which is to be practised by us

-- Dharmakirti

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Níl sa saol seo ach ceo
There is naught in this life but mist
Is ní bheimid beo ach seal beag gearr.
And we will not be alive but a short hard time.
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Postby ccharles » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:25 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
ccharles wrote:When westerners first encountered the Pali language, how were they able to translate it?
Sanskrit was a known language.

I don't know much about the relationship between the two languages, but how did they use their knowledge of Sanskrit to translate Pali? I was wondering if whether or not the first western translators in Sri Lanka, for example, would've learned Pali, via their knowledge of the Sinhala language, from scholar monks who knew both languages.
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:39 pm

ccharles wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
ccharles wrote:When westerners first encountered the Pali language, how were they able to translate it?
Sanskrit was a known language.

I don't know much about the relationship between the two languages, but how did they use their knowledge of Sanskrit to translate Pali? I was wondering if whether or not the first western translators in Sri Lanka, for example, would've learned Pali, via their knowledge of the Sinhala language, from scholar monks who knew both languages.
Pali is a prakrit. Both Pali and Sanskrit come from a common source, making them very closely related following much the same grammatical rules. Knowing Sanskrit makes learning Pali very easy.

This is a decent discussion of Pali: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81li

What is the use of his knowledge
pertaining to the number of insects in the whole world?
Rather, inquire into his knowledge of
that which is to be practised by us

-- Dharmakirti

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Níl sa saol seo ach ceo
There is naught in this life but mist
Is ní bheimid beo ach seal beag gearr.
And we will not be alive but a short hard time.
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:23 pm

One of the more interesting early translations from the Pali:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/bits/index.htm

What is the use of his knowledge
pertaining to the number of insects in the whole world?
Rather, inquire into his knowledge of
that which is to be practised by us

-- Dharmakirti

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Níl sa saol seo ach ceo
There is naught in this life but mist
Is ní bheimid beo ach seal beag gearr.
And we will not be alive but a short hard time.
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 16727
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Early translation of Pali

Postby pulga » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:09 am

ccharles wrote:I don't know much about the relationship between the two languages, but how did they use their knowledge of Sanskrit to translate Pali? I was wondering if whether or not the first western translators in Sri Lanka, for example, would've learned Pali, via their knowledge of the Sinhala language, from scholar monks who knew both languages.


Some of the earliest comprehensive expositions of Theravada came from the Christian missionary Robert Spence Hardy. He knew no Pali: what he learned of Buddhism came from his fluency in Sinhala. Though his writings have a Christian bias, they do offer at times a fascinating, firsthand description of Sinhala Buddhism in Ceylon before Colonel Olcott and the Theosophists became involved with the religion.

As far as learning about Buddhism through Pali, I believe the Rev. D.J. Gogerly preceded Spence Hardy by a generation or so, and produced some of the earliest translations into English.
"To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Postby ccharles » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:22 am

pulga wrote:
ccharles wrote:I don't know much about the relationship between the two languages, but how did they use their knowledge of Sanskrit to translate Pali? I was wondering if whether or not the first western translators in Sri Lanka, for example, would've learned Pali, via their knowledge of the Sinhala language, from scholar monks who knew both languages.


Some of the earliest comprehensive expositions of Theravada came from the Christian missionary Robert Spence Hardy. He knew no Pali: what he learned of Buddhism came from his fluency in Sinhala. Though his writings have a Christian bias, they do offer at times a fascinating, firsthand description of Sinhala Buddhism in Ceylon before Colonel Olcott and the Theosophists became involved with the religion.

As far as learning about Buddhism through Pali, I believe the Rev. D.J. Gogerly preceded Spence Hardy by a generation or so, and produced some of the earliest translations into English.

By what process did the Rev. D.J. Gogerly learn Pali?
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Postby pulga » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:48 am

ccharles wrote:By what process did the Rev. D.J. Gogerly learn Pali?


I'm afraid I don't know that much about Gogerly. I believe a two volume set of his essays and translations were printed a long while ago. If you Google his name you should be able to locate the pdf download for his books which are in the public domain. Just reading over the preface should give you the answer you're looking for. Good luck.
"To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Postby daverupa » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:21 pm

tiltbillings wrote:One of the more interesting early translations from the Pali:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/bits/index.htm


Then drew near Milinda the king to where the venerable Nâgasena; and having passed the compliments of friendship and civility, he sat down respectfully at one side. And the venerable Nâgasena returned the greeting; by which, verily, he won the heart of king Milinda.


:clap:
    "There is, headman, dhammasamādhi. If you were to obtain cittasamādhi in that, you might abandon this state of perplexity. And what, headman, is dhammasamādhi?

    [kammapatha & brahmavihara, & a method of arousing gladness]"
- SN 42.13 - Pāṭaliya


    "Others will misapprehend according to their individual views, hold on to them tenaciously and not easily discard them; we shall not misapprehend according to individual views nor hold on to them tenaciously, but shall discard them with ease — thus effacement can be done."
- MN 8 - Sallekha Sutta
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