Either way it is good.perkele wrote:Ah, I see. So the answer to this questionCittasanto wrote:But my point was in agreeing with what you said, the claim that the Jhanas can not be mastered... any-more falls flat on its face when there is this wealth of experience of people who (may have different opinions about how strong it is...) do still reach and master the factors which make Jhana Jhana at each level.is yes.perkele wrote:Or have I missed the point and you meant the opposite of what I interpreted?
Thanks for clearing it up. I misunderstood you completely. But I think you also expressed yourself a bit vaguely in your original post.
The possibility of Jhana and enlightenment
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Re: The possibility of Jhana and enlightenment
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: The possibility of Jhana and enlightenment
LonesomeYogurt wrote:just today I read in another discussion here someone claiming that the higher Jhanas (above the first) were no longer available either.
thats just silly! Jhanas are a natural state of mind, their availability does not disappear. I can give a handful of teachers, just off the top of my head, who teach all 4 Jhanas from experience.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."