The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
starter
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by starter »

Hi Phil and other friends,

Thanks for your good effort.

I'd like to add another selection which is helpful for establishing moral fear and shame of wrong doings:

"Those in whom shame and fear of wrong,
Are not consistently found,
Have deviated from the bright root,
And are led back to birth and death.

But those in whom shame and fear of wrong,
Are consistently ever present,
Peaceful, mature in the holy life,
They put an end to renewal of being."

[From http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html]

May all of us good progress in the path!

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gben
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by gben »

It is important to think of why memories are cultivated. If there is no paper or ink or other recording method available then it has to suffice.

It is important to know that nobody is going to find their way to freedom just because they can parrot the words of others.

It is pretty worn out and cliched, but it is a classic example where the teacher tries to point at freedom while the student never understands but sits there and just looks at the finger! Making a drawing of the pointing hand is no more a picture of freedom than any string of words.

Buddhas don't remember words as they are dead things while freedom is always new. Each time a buddha puts what is real into words it will be done in a different way and yesterday's words are to be washed away and forgotten with each new moment.
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Subharo
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Kāḷakārāma Sutta excerpt

Post by Subharo »

Respectful Greetings, Bhante Khemaratana, :anjali:

I've chosen an excerpt from the Kāḷakārāma Sutta (from the Aṅguttara Nikāya, Book of the Fours).

Note: Thanissaro Bhikkhu's translation here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

...and Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation is here: https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.24

...but in the case of this particular sutta, I've chosen to quote from Bhikkhu Ñānananda's translation (found in “The Magic of the Mind: An Exposition of the Kalakarama Sutta” ISBN-13: 978-9552401350, Pariyatti Press):


Thus, monks, a Tathāgata does not conceive of a visible thing apart from sight;
he does not conceive of an unseen;
he does not conceive of a 'thing-worth-seeing';
he does not conceive about a seer.

He does not conceive of an audible thing as apart from hearing;
he does not conceive of an unheard;
he does not conceive of a 'thing-worth-hearing';
he does not conceive about a hearer.

He does not conceive of a thing to be sensed as apart from sensation;
he does not conceive of an unsensed;
he does not conceive of a 'thing-worth-sensing';
he does not conceive about one who senses.

He does not conceive of a cognizable thing as apart from cognition;
he does not conceive of an uncognized;
he does not conceive of a 'thing-worth-cognizing';
he does not conceive about one who cognizes.

Thus, monks, the Tathāgata being such-like in regard to all phenomena seen, heard, sensed and cognized, is 'Such'. Moreover, than he who is 'Such', there is none other greater or more excellent, I declare.

Whatever is seen, heard, sensed, or clung to,
is esteemed as truth by other folk,
Midst those who are entrenched in their own views
Being “Such” I hold none as true of false.

This barb I beheld, well in advance,
whereupon mankind is hooked, impaled,
“I know, I see, 'tis verily so” – no such clinging
for the Tathāgatas.


:bow:
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Subharo
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by Subharo »

gben wrote:Buddhas don't remember words as they are dead things while freedom is always new. Each time a buddha puts what is real into words it will be done in a different way and yesterday's words are to be washed away and forgotten with each new moment.
Here's a passage from the arahat disciple Ananda, which I think would clash with your view (that the Dhamma should not be memorized). Quoted from the Theragāthā, Verses of the Senior Monks, Chapter of the Thirties 17.3 "Ānanda" https://suttacentral.net/en/thag17.3:

You should stay close to a learned person—
Don’t lose what you’ve learned.
It is the root of the spiritual life,
So you should memorize the Dhamma.

Knowing the sequence and meaning of the teaching,
Skilled in the interpretation of terms,
He makes sure it is well memorized,
And then examines the meaning.

Accepting the teachings, he becomes enthusiastic;
Making an effort, he scrutinizes the Dhamma;
Striving at the right time,
He is serene inside himself.

If you want to understand the Dhamma,
You should associate with the sort of person
Who is learned, and has memorized the Dhamma,
A wise disciple of the Buddha.

A monk who is learned, and has memorized the Dhamma,
A keeper of the great sage’s treasury,
Is a visionary for the entire world,
Venerable, and learned.

Delighting in Dhamma, enjoying Dhamma,
Reflecting on Dhamma,
Recollecting Dhamma,
He doesn’t decline in the true Dhamma.
Subharo Bhikkhu
"There is but one taste on this path, the taste of freedom" -The Buddha :buddha1:
dhammarelax
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by dhammarelax »

Hi,

I have just memorized the MN 38 and starting MN 111. Based on draft calculations is taking me about 10 minutes to memorize one line (BB translation) does anyone have a comparison on this?

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Re: Kāḷakārāma Sutta excerpt

Post by Spiny Norman »

Subharo wrote:I've chosen an excerpt from the Kāḷakārāma Sutta (from the Aṅguttara Nikāya, Book of the Fours).
Thanks, that's a really interesting sutta. I have an AN anthology but I don't think that sutta is included unfortunately.
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mikenz66
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by mikenz66 »

But it is available here:
https://suttacentral.net/an4.24

:anjali:
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gben
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by gben »

Subharo wrote: Here's a passage from the arahat disciple Ananda, which I think would clash with your view (that the Dhamma should not be memorized).
Only for those who mistake words for reality or truth does it clash. One can remember all the words in the world and still understand nothing about them or what their writer or speaker sees, memory has nothing to do with understanding.

Once the real world is seen, once there is freedom, then there is also freedom from memory including written and spoken texts. The Buddha certainly does not refer to written or spoken words each moment to remain a Buddha. A Buddha does not need words, chants, meditation, memories, hierarchies, Buddhism or the word "Buddha" to be a Buddha.

If that phenomena which is dependent on another is false, then that Buddha or freedom which is dependent on words is false.

To be clear, being free of memory does not mean having no memory. A Buddha can recall the past at will as needed but is not enslaved by it. A Buddha is also free of the future, not because it is incapable of conceptualizing one at will as needed, but as it is done a Buddha is not enslaved by the future or any other conception.

When a Buddha is asked a question it does not have to reply with dead memories, but is capable at any moment of expressing the truth it is in communion with in a way as current as that moment.
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by Komuso »

I aspire to memorize SN 56.11 Dhamma Cakka Pavattana Sutta.
:sage: Komuso
:buddha1: Namo Amitabha Buddhaya
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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

i have already memorized http://chantpali.org/homage.html
which can be found badly pronounced here
im working on http://chantpali.org/metta.html
using this for reference
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
Ontheway
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by Ontheway »

Good thread. I wonder why it stops being active ...

Let us try memorising some Pali scriptures.

I am now memorising Atanatiya rakkha. :reading:
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Kilaya Ciriello
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by Kilaya Ciriello »

I aspire to memorize the Dhatuvibhanga Sutta MN140 in English. I really appreciate the advice given so far in this thread. I'm going to try a few of the mentioned techniques like daily reciting, copying out by hand, working paragraph by paragraph successively and cumulatively, using the mnemonic technique of listing words by first letter only as an aid to memorizing the correct sequencing and I am investigating the "method of loci" as well.
I don't consider myself talented in the memorization field. My foreign language skills are dismal (I think it's the same area of the brain employed) after trying to learn a few languages and putting in some serious effort. And I have only tried to memorize a few speeches in my life. But I feel a strong motivation to be able to recite this sutta in English.

Does anybody know of opportunities to practice reciting this with others? I think the pressure to recite in front of others periodically would really push me to get it done, knowing my aversion to screwing up in front of others! lol. Maybe there's a WhatsApp or other messaging group of people getting together reciting to each other?
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by befriend »

I memorized some of this dhammapada elephant passage to help me when people insult me https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/v ... ?verse=320
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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frank k
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by frank k »

In 2022 I started memorizng parayana vagga of Snp (sutta nipāta) in pāli.
16 short suttas from 16 brahman jhāna meditators on the way to nirvana.

https://lucid24.org/kn/kn-snp/single/index.html#s5.2


The most important ones of the 16, I memorized in their entirety already.
The other ones, I start with just memorizing the most important part, just a few lines, from that sutta.
That is, all 16 suttas I have at least a few lines memorized, and I recite what I've memorized daily and add a little bit each day.

So roughly, I've probably memorized in raw word count more than 50% of the total.

Roughly half of each sutta, the Buddha is giving an answer and the other half the guy is asking questions.
So I prioritize the memorizing with the Buddha's answers first (contains the valuable and profound parts).
The last things I memorize will be the questioner's verses.

But I expect to have the project completed in a few months.

Takes about 15min daily to chant everything I've memroized so far, expect total when complete, to be about 20-25min chanting full speed fluent pali.

Once it's firmly ingrained in my memory, I'll chant it once or twice a week.
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frank k
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Re: The Dhamma Wheel Memorization Challenge

Post by frank k »

Just want to encourage those of you, I found the most helpful motivation is the memorize the Dhamma that is most important, rather than arbitrarily picking a sutta and just having an obsessive compulsion to memorize the 'complete' sutta in its entirety.
if you're not skilled in memorizing yet, then it's quite tedious and difficult and hard to generate motivation to memorize the parts of the sutta that are just trivial narrative elements with no dharmic content.

But I find it highly motivating to memorize the sections that are important, because each time you recite it, you're getting the benefit of positive reinforcement right there, getting the value of hearing that Dhamma right there.

As another example, I never could memorize the ratana sutta or mangala sutta, because they don't contain any actual nitty gritty instructions on how to get to nirvana. They play like those armed military commericials on t.v. ("Be, all that you can be, in the U.S. Army") touting how great Buddhism is, without telling you the actual practice in detail.
So I put my efforts first in memorizing the important practice details, such as here:
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... ragon.html

Of course if you enjoy the ratana or mangala sutta becuase it has some inspirational value, then it's worthwhile for you to memorize it.
It helps with pīti awakening factor, the mental joy to feeds first jhāna.

My point is for most people, memorizing skill is difficult so you really want to make each word count. Where you get the most bang for the buck and can reap the benefits of the repetitive daily recitation right away.
Last edited by frank k on Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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