tiltbillings wrote:Well, one "wakes up to" freedom from, which is an utter transformation. The arahant is one who is nibbana-ized, which is not an issue of negation or affirmation, and this can be be supported by the suttas, as this thread shows. Otherwise, if we are "waking up to" something, we can reasonably ask: "So, where is nibbana when there are no arahants?" -- a question that suggests nibbana is a self-existent thing that exists independently of awakened individuals, a thing we "awaken to."
Do lobha, dosa, and moha exist in the sense that tangible, concrete objects exist? I can not say where Nibbana is when there are no arahants, anymore than I can say where dosa goes when metta or khanti are cultivated and maintained. Nibbana seems to be an intangible state of being, so spatial (where) and temporal (when) concepts would not seem to apply. Nibbana is everywhere and nowhere.
My understanding is that Samma Sambuddhas and Paccekabuddhas attain Unbinding without Dhamma Instruction. Where do they get it?
The most basic and clear definitions given in the suttas:
"Bhikkhus, I will teach you freedom from the conditioned [asankhata] and the path leading to freedom from the conditioned. Listen to that....
"And what, bhikkhus, is freedom from the conditioned [asankhata]? The destruction of greed, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called freedom from the conditioned.
"And what, bhikkhus, is the path leading to freedom from the conditioned? Mindfulness directed to the body: this is called the path leading to freedom from the conditioned." -- SN IV 359
"That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is nibbana." -- S.N. IV 251 and IV 321
iirc, Lobha, Dosa, and Moha are given in the Suttas as the three root afflictions. It makes sense that they would be absent in the Unbinding, or the unbound state. The adjective asankhata suggests that Unbinding is unconditioned; free from all sankharas, not just afflictions. If all conditioned states are inconstant; then that might imply that Unbinding is constant. That could be taken to mean that Unbinding is atemporal and aspatial.