Tantric Theravada?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Kim OHara
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Kim OHara »

gavesako wrote:... In sharp contrast the weikza-lam promises not the termination of samsaric life in nibbana but rather its indefinite prolongation through the attainment of virtual immortality as a weikza-do or Buddhist wizard ...
Hello, bhante,
Reading this, I wondered whether there are any connections between this tradition and the esoteric Taoist traditions, on the other side of the Chinese border, which likewise aim for immortality. Have you come across any links?

:namaste:
Kim
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gavesako
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by gavesako »

Kim OHara wrote:
gavesako wrote:... In sharp contrast the weikza-lam promises not the termination of samsaric life in nibbana but rather its indefinite prolongation through the attainment of virtual immortality as a weikza-do or Buddhist wizard ...
Hello, bhante,
Reading this, I wondered whether there are any connections between this tradition and the esoteric Taoist traditions, on the other side of the Chinese border, which likewise aim for immortality. Have you come across any links?

:namaste:
Kim
I am not really sure but I would not be surprised if there were some connections between them.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Shunyata Vajra
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Shunyata Vajra »

Dan74 wrote:I am not knowledgeable about these things, but there seems to be confusion about various things in this thread. Tantra, at least as it is practiced in Tibetan Buddhism, is not magic, is not concerned with immortality or special powers, as far as I can tell. Its sole purpose is attaining enlightenment.
dear dan,

in many sadhanas you can find lower activities, which usually include magic rites of different kinds. And the main purpose of yidam deity is to obtain siddhis, wordly and ultimate both. And of course we can find many long life sadhanas, for at least prolonging our lives, if not immortality. But one of the stages in vajrayana is called "rigdzin/vidyadhara of immortality".

best regards!

:namaste:
Justsit
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Justsit »

Shunyata Vajra wrote:in many sadhanas you can find lower activities, which usually include magic rites of different kinds. And the main purpose of yidam deity is to obtain siddhis, wordly and ultimate both. And of course we can find many long life sadhanas, for at least prolonging our lives, if not immortality. But one of the stages in vajrayana is called "rigdzin/vidyadhara of immortality".
May I ask, in which lineage do you practice?
Shunyata Vajra
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Shunyata Vajra »

Justsit wrote:
Shunyata Vajra wrote:in many sadhanas you can find lower activities, which usually include magic rites of different kinds. And the main purpose of yidam deity is to obtain siddhis, wordly and ultimate both. And of course we can find many long life sadhanas, for at least prolonging our lives, if not immortality. But one of the stages in vajrayana is called "rigdzin/vidyadhara of immortality".
May I ask, in which lineage do you practice?
Nyingma
Justsit
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Justsit »

Shunyata Vajra wrote:
Justsit wrote:
Shunyata Vajra wrote:in many sadhanas you can find lower activities, which usually include magic rites of different kinds. And the main purpose of yidam deity is to obtain siddhis, wordly and ultimate both. And of course we can find many long life sadhanas, for at least prolonging our lives, if not immortality. But one of the stages in vajrayana is called "rigdzin/vidyadhara of immortality".
May I ask, in which lineage do you practice?
Nyingma
Ah, OK. The qualities mentioned above may not be applicable to the practices of some of the other lineages.
But that is a discussion for our sister Mahayana/Vajrayana site at Dharmawheel.net.
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gavesako
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by gavesako »

Supernatural powers are cited as the factors behind recent high-profile accidents in Thailand, namely the botched landing of a Thai Airways plane at Bangkok′s main airport earlier this week.
The newspaper has also quoted Mr. Chotisak Asapaviriya, a former director of Airports Authority of Thailand (AOT), as saying that he had organised a regular prayer session to placate the vengeful spirits which reside in the airport vicinity.
Thai Rath helpfully points out that 8 major shrines have been built around Suvarnabhumi Airport by the staff in order to ward off evil spirits, such as a shrine dedicated to the Naga (holy big snake in Buddhist myths) which is presumably angered by construction of the airport on what was once a swamp inhabited by snakes.
Dr. Smith Thammasaroj, former director of Suvarnnabhumi Airport, told Thai Rath he was convinced of the existence of supernatural entities around the airport even though, he admitted, he had never encountered any particular case personally.
The scientist who once headed Thailand′s Meteorological Department said he had invited so many psychics to conduct ceremonies and constructed so many shrines "that I can′t keep count".
"We even had to build a condominium for the ghosts to reside," Dr. Smith said, "Because the spirits are so many individual spirit houses won′t be enough".
"There have been more deaths than usual. Many have suggested that the Ministry of Transport needs a large-scale merit-making ceremony" Mr. Chatchart said.

Recent Transport Disasters Blamed On Spirits
http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newson ... =&catid=03

The spirits will be happy... :woohoo:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Kim OHara
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Kim OHara »

Thank you for that, bhante, although I don't know whether the appropriate response is
:rolleye: or :alien: or :jawdrop: or just
:rofl:

:namaste:
Kim
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tiltbillings
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by tiltbillings »

Kim OHara wrote:Thank you for that, bhante, although I don't know whether the appropriate response is
:rolleye: or :alien: or :jawdrop: or just
:rofl:

:namaste:
Kim
I would not be so judgmental. That is simply Thailand/Southeast Asia. The older beliefs still have their say, even if clothed in Brahmanical/Buddhist trappings.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Kim OHara
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Kim OHara »

tiltbillings wrote:
Kim OHara wrote:Thank you for that, bhante, although I don't know whether the appropriate response is
:rolleye: or :alien: or :jawdrop: or just
:rofl:

:namaste:
Kim
I would not be so judgmental. That is simply Thailand/Southeast Asia. The older beliefs still have their say, even if clothed in Brahmanical/Buddhist trappings.
Judgemental? Me??
I suppose so, but not in a totally negative, "These guys must be nuts!" way.
I have no problem with acknowledging both spiritual realities and technological realities but failing to distinguish between them strikes me as odd and potentially dangerous. In the West we have made that distinction (and made it work for us) since the days of Cromwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_in_G ... powder_dry) and Ben Franklin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helps_ ... themselves) - if not all the way back to JC and his "render unto Caesar" rule.
As a purely practical matter I really want the guys on the ground at the airport, next time I fly in, to have followed their maintenance manuals whether or not they have also made offerings to the nagas.

:namaste:
Kim
ricebowl
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by ricebowl »

"Mahaka Sutta: About Mahaka" (SN 41.4), translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight, 2 July 2010, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html . Retrieved on 4 March 2013 (Offline Edition 2013.03.04.11).
Matteo1972
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Matteo1972 »

Dan74 wrote:I am not knowledgeable about these things, but there seems to be confusion about various things in this thread. Tantra, at least as it is practiced in Tibetan Buddhism, is not magic, is not concerned with immortality or special powers, as far as I can tell. Its sole purpose is attaining enlightenment.
Anyone made it ?
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mirco
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by mirco »

rowboat wrote:Here is some contact information for Bana Bhante.
These people should be able to help you if there are any translations of Venerable Bana Bhante: [email protected]
Thank you, rowboat.

Here is what I got from there: Sermon Of The Ariyasāvaka Sādhanānanda Mahāthera (Banabhante)


Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!
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gavesako
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by gavesako »

Nice illustration of a yogavacara monk from Siam in the Ayutthaya period performing some kind of magic:
Yogavacara fire.jpg
Yogavacara fire.jpg (120.29 KiB) Viewed 5333 times
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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form
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by form »

A lersi is a type of theravada tantric?
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