I try not to judge them at all. I figure I'll find out soon enough.clw_uk wrote:How do you all see near death experiences in line with the Traditional Theravada view of instant rebirth
Perhaps "immediate" would be a better word than "instant". Every description that I've read spoke of a "movement" into the next birth. Time is inherent in movement. I recently listened to an Ajahn Brahm video in which he related a story in which a monk (the abbot?) in deep mediation in an Asian monastery "saw" the consciousness of a dying being "travel" to its new existence nearby. This travel took place immediately, but apparently not instantly.that if we view rebirth in any way, we see it as instant
clw_uk wrote:I was reading an article about Near death experiences today when it hit me that what i was reading was at odds with the tradition i practice, as most of us here are Theravadins, i assume that if we view rebirth in any way, we see it as instant
In most if not all Near death experiences however there are reports of floating around the body, going to different places, talking with people and tunnels of light etc
How do you all see near death experiences in line with the Traditional Theravada view of instant rebirth
I dont excpect to uncover the answer to the mystery of NDE's, just thought it be interesting discussion
v. 37: Death and rebirth-linking
To one who is on the verge of death, either at the end of a cognitive process or the dissolution of the life-continuum, the death consciousness, the consumation of the present life, arises and ceases in the way of death.
Immediately after that (death consciousness) has ceased, a rebirth-linking consciousness arises and is established in the subsequent existence, apprehending the object thus obtained, either supported by the heart-base or baseless, as is appropriate; it is generated by a volitional formation that is enveloped by latent ignorance and rooted in latent craving. The rebirth-linking consciousness, so called because it links together the two consecutive existences, is conjoined with its mental adjuncts, and acts as a forerunner to the conascent stats as their locus (or foundation)
-- Acariya Anurrudha. Vithimuttasangaha, Abhidhammatthasangaha
Guide to v. 37
To one who is on the verge of death: The last cognitive process begins when the bhavanga is interrupted, vibrates for one moment, and is then arrested. Thereafter follows either a sense-door process taking as object some sense object presenting itself at one of the five sense doors or a bare mind-door process taking as object either some sense object or a mental object preseniting itself at the mind door. Within this terminal process the javana phase, by reason of its weakness, runs for only five mind-moments rather than the usual seven. This process lacks original productive kammic potency, but acts rather as the channel for the past kamma that has assumed the revirth-generative function. Following the javana stage two registration cittas (tadarammana) may or may not follow. In some cases the bhavanga may follow the last process cittas. Then, as the very last citta, the death consciousness arises performing the function of passing away from the present life. With the ceasing of the death consciousness, the life faculty is cut off. Then the body remains a mass of inanimate material phenomena born of temperature and continues as such until the corpse is reduced to dust.
Immediately after that has ceased: Following the dissolution moment of the death consciousness, there arises in a new existence the rebirth-linking consciousness apprehending the object thus obtained in the final javana process of the previous life. This citta is supported by the heart-base in realms which include matter, but is baseless in the immaterial realms. It is generated by a volitional formation, i.e. the kamma of the previous javana process, which in turn is grounded in the twin roots of the round of existence, latent ignorance and latent craving. The rebirth consciousness is conjoined with its mental adjuncts, which it serves as a forerunner not in the sense that it precedes them, but in that it acts as their locus or foundation.
-- Bhikkhu Bodhi, Compendium of the Process Freed, A Comprehensive Manual of the Abhidhamma
Then, as the very last citta, the death consciousness arises performing the function of passing away from the present life
has not yet occurred....the ceasing of the death consciousness...