What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

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tiltbillings
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Post by tiltbillings »

son of dhamma wrote:I don't find them Brahmanically. I don't think the Buddha would have spoken in a way to mislead people.
He did not mislead people; he redirected them.
, do you say that the Buddha decided to speak non-literally to convince all theistic-thinkers that they're correct in a sense, but they're missing the true Dhamma of it all? The Buddha was a literal teacher.
He was far more sophisticated than than that. The literalism comes from his followers. Literalism does not require a very deep,
mature faith grounded in insight. Literalism is for those who want certainly in the face of insecurity, failing to recognize the wisdom of insecurity taught by the Buddha.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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son of dhamma
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Post by son of dhamma »

I see your point here. You're saying that literal people mislead themselves from the Buddhadhamma, whilst non-literal people only have the right understanding to gain wisdom from the Buddhadhamma--on the grounds that he was sophisticated as to not speak literally but in a subtle way, as the Dhamma is subtle and difficult to understand.
I agree very much. But I think that you're posing this argument because you're not aware of my own thinking. I'm not applying these Abhidhamma concepts and the Annagga Sutta and kammic law to support the literal translation itself, I'm applying them to what we know scientifically, today, about the world. Think of this perspective.
with metta
Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.
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tiltbillings
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Post by tiltbillings »

son of dhamma wrote:I see your point here. You're saying that literal people mislead themselves from the Buddhadhamma, whilst non-literal people only have the right understanding to gain wisdom from the Buddhadhamma--on the grounds that he was sophisticated as to not speak literally but in a subtle way, as the Dhamma is subtle and difficult to understand.
I agree very much. But I think that you're posing this argument because you're not aware of my own thinking. I'm not applying these Abhidhamma concepts and the Annagga Sutta and kammic law to support the literal translation itself, I'm applying them to what we know scientifically, today, about the world. Think of this perspective.
with metta
And in terms of science a literal interpretation of the Annagga Sutta as objective fact makes Buddhists look as stupid as Christians who insist upon literal interpretations of the Bible. Science is not doing religion and religion is not doing science and Buddhism is not exempt from that.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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son of dhamma
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Post by son of dhamma »

I don't find the Buddhadhamma to be similar to Christianity in that sense, or in any other sense. I don't think that my scientific application of the Abhidhamma and the Agganna Sutta makes Buddhists look stupid. I think that Buddha explained the cosmos and how they work in a way that I can understand and apply to scientific knowledge. I would not like to debate this with you on every discussion board, so please begin another discussion board and I'd debate it there. :strawman: Please allow me to share my own viewpoint with these people, and let them agree or disagree with that viewpoint.
with metta
Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.
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tiltbillings
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Post by tiltbillings »

son of dhamma wrote:I don't find the Buddhadhamma to be similar to Christianity in that sense, or in any other sense. I don't think that my scientific application of the Abhidhamma and the Agganna Sutta makes Buddhists look stupid.
When you criticize science on the basis of that sutta, you make Buddhists look no different from Christian literalists who criticize science on the basis of the Bible.
I think that Buddha explained the cosmos and how they work in a way that I can understand and apply to scientific knowledge. I would not like to debate this with you on every discussion board, so please begin another discussion board and I'd debate it there.
You don't want to debate on the debate forum.
Please allow me to share my own viewpoint with these people, and let them agree or disagree with that viewpoint.
I am simply disagreeing with your viewpoint and you are now telling me you do not like it. Geez.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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son of dhamma
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Post by son of dhamma »

I don't mean to be vehement. Sorry, sorry :( . I do apologize. I only mean to say that I don't want to debate this literal/non-literal taking in any further detail on this page. On the debate forum concerning the Agganna Sutta, I would like to hear the questioners response to my viewpoint before I debate with you. I did not mean to be pesky. Thank you for debating with me, I am thankful for you. :anjali:
with metta (really)
Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.
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