Why does God allow natural disasters?

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tiltbillings
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by tiltbillings »

Annabel wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Annabel wrote:
One has to do a religion justice, I feel, by showing both sides.
Sure, but does that really address why there is suffering in the creation work of the god in question, which is the point of the OP?
Hi, Tilt,

I addressed it in my first post:

that it is a misunderstanding of the Abrahamic doctrines to assume that earth is a place like paradise, where nothing evil will happen:

No catastrophes, no suffering, no death.
The point is, it is the way god created it. It was its choice to create the way it did.
This misunderstanding causes yet others to arise:

That God failed us through cruelty, absence or weakness.

Earth, according to the Abrahamic dogma is the place for the expelled, to suffer.
It is so by the creative act of the god they claim to have created it.
If that is clear, questions like the topic question will not arise.
But these questions do arise within the very religions who hold to such a creator god, with all sorts of attempts to explain away the problem of suffering and the creator god's responsibility.
As Bikkhu Pesala's article shows, the wise King realized this:
Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi, does not value gifts and honors as much as he values this -- that there should be growth in the essentials of all religions.[23] Growth in essentials can be done in different ways, but all of them have as their root restraint in speech, that is, not praising one's own religion, or condemning the religion of others without good cause. And if there is cause for criticism, it should be done in a mild way. But it is better to honor other religions for this reason. By so doing, one's own religion benefits, and so do other religions, while doing otherwise harms one's own religion and the religions of others.
That does not mean one cannot or should not respond to certain claims made by other religions. The Buddha certainly did respond so.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by Sanghamitta »

I am also interested in why these threads re Christianity occur on a Buddhist message board, but from a possibly different angle. Do we suppose that on the average Catholic or Orthodox message boards heated discussions go on regarding Buddhadhamma ? I rather doubt it. Why ? Because they have nothing to prove vis a vis Buddhism. If they think about Buddhism at all for the vast majority it at best an irrelevance, and at worst the work of the devil notwithstanding the tiny minority who have an interest in Dhamma, and which could result in their expulsion from their church like the Dominican monk Matthew Fox. So why do Buddhists get heated about Christianity ? I suspect that ( as has been pointed out ) it represents an unprocessed. unresolved concern. A subject that returns and nags because it hasnt been let go of. I suspect that some Buddhists want their cake and want to eat it too. They cant quite bring themselves to actually , with cool eyes, allow themselves to internalise what the Buddha said about the God concept. He was not complimentary.
I think that the sign of a maturing Dhamma in the west ( not note a western Dhamma ) will be an absence of a need to discus Christianity at all except in the broadest cultural terms. No anger, no rejection, no last lingering farewells. Just a positive embrace of the Dhamma, and a friendly face to all.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by tiltbillings »

Sanghamitta wrote: They cant quite bring themselves to actually , with cool eyes, allow themselves to internalise what the Buddha said about the God concept. He was not complimentary.
A lot of ex-Christians, including those who are "self-professed Buddhists," have a great deal of anger and other uncomfortable negative feelings concerning their Xtian background. There is a lot of ingrained stuff that is often in the background, and one's "relationship" with "god" is rarely intellectual, but rather emotional. It is a huge move going from Xtianity to Buddhism, particularly Theravada.
I think that the sign of a maturing Dhamma in the west ( not note a western Dhamma ) will be an absence of a need to discus Christianity at all except in the broadest cultural terms. No anger, no rejection, no last lingering farewells. Just a positive embrace of the Dhamma, and a friendly face to all.
Ideally, you are correct. It is, however, far easier said than done, given that so many do come out of theistic backgrounds which often foster, as away of control, guilt and fear. The question of god will continue to be an important issue to deal with for many.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by Sanghamitta »

It will be an important issue to deal with Tilt, and for a generation or two I suspect. As I see it though it is no more and no less than that, an issue to deal with . I think what we are currently seeing is the pushyou pullme of attraction and aversion concerning the whole matter. Its like a collective neurosis for some students of the Dhamma , stuck between two world views that cant be both right, no matter what intellectual juggling is performed, but not quite able to let go. So we get the Jesus was a Bodhisattva threads and the Sermon On The Mount proves that Jesus went to Kashmir threads.. Or conversly the Anger and Rejection of all things Christian threads, both imo are symptomatic of growing pains, and umbilicus cutting. The fact is Christianity is neither friend or foe although individual Christians might be friends, from a Buddhadhamma perspective Christianity is actually irrelevant. Just as the Buddha described God belief in his day. The late Christmas Humphries was quite interesting on this topic, he said that for western Buddhists to ignore their Christian heritage was to set up a dynamic that would return to bite them, he said that western Buddhists need to work through their feelings about Christianity and then walk on. I assume the same would be true about Judaism too.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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Annapurna
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by Annapurna »

Annabel wrote:
If the shoe doesn't fit, a "No" is sufficient.
Tiltbillings wrote: Obviously, no.
If people react, they feel addressed.
Last edited by Annapurna on Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by tiltbillings »

Annabel wrote:
Annabel wrote:
If the shoe doesn't fit, a "No" is sufficient.
Tiltbillings wrote: Obviously, no.
If people react, they feel addressed.
?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Annapurna
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by Annapurna »

A lot of ex-Christians, including those who are "self-professed Buddhists," have a great deal of anger and other uncomfortable negative feelings concerning their Xtian background. There is a lot of ingrained stuff that is often in the background, and one's "relationship" with "god" is rarely intellectual, but rather emotional. It is a huge move going from Xtianity to Buddhism, particularly Theravada.
Yes, that is an explanation. The solution:


'He insulted me, hit me, beat me, robbed me' —
for those who don't brood on this,
hostility is stilled.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by tiltbillings »

Sanghamitta wrote: The fact is Christianity is neither friend or foe although individual Christians might be friends, from a Buddhadhamma perspective Christianity is actually irrelevant.
Yes and no or it depends. There are very aggressive evangelical type doing their business in Buddhist countries. This has been a serious issue in Sri Lanka. Apologetics has it place. Much of the evangelical movement in the USA would view Buddhism as the work of the devil. More liberal denominations take a more benign stance, and then there are individual stances that run the full spectrum
The late Christmas Humphries was quite interesting on this topic, he said that for western Buddhists to ignore their Christian heritage was to set up a dynamic that would return to bite them, he said that western Buddhists need to work through their feelings about Christianity and then walk on. I assume the same would be true about Judaism too.
TCH, for all his Theosophical oddities, was not without insight.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by tiltbillings »

Annabel wrote:
A lot of ex-Christians, including those who are "self-professed Buddhists," have a great deal of anger and other uncomfortable negative feelings concerning their Xtian background. There is a lot of ingrained stuff that is often in the background, and one's "relationship" with "god" is rarely intellectual, but rather emotional. It is a huge move going from Xtianity to Buddhism, particularly Theravada.
Yes, that is an explanation. The solution:


'He insulted me, hit me, beat me, robbed me' —
for those who don't brood on this,
hostility is stilled.
Easier said than done, given the emotional grips such things as one early religious training can engender. It helps, for some, to take a careful look at the issues.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Annapurna
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by Annapurna »

tiltbillings wrote:
Annabel wrote:
Annabel wrote:
If the shoe doesn't fit, a "No" is sufficient.
Tiltbillings wrote: Obviously, no.
If people react, they feel addressed.
?
Tilt,

if you step on a dog's tail, he will squeal.

If you don't, he won't.

Likewise, if you hit bulleye in a discussion, some people will react, those, who feel you got their number, and will start to attack or explain it away.

Those who don't feel you meant them, will not react. :anjali:

Generally speaking....
Last edited by Annapurna on Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by Sanghamitta »

tiltbillings wrote:
Sanghamitta wrote: The fact is Christianity is neither friend or foe although individual Christians might be friends, from a Buddhadhamma perspective Christianity is actually irrelevant.
Yes and no or it depends. There are very aggressive evangelical type doing their business in Buddhist countries. This has been a serious issue in Sri Lanka. Apologetics has it place. Much of the evangelical movement in the USA would view Buddhism as the work of the devil. More liberal denominations take a more benign stance, and then there are individual stances that run the full spectrum
The late Christmas Humphries was quite interesting on this topic, he said that for western Buddhists to ignore their Christian heritage was to set up a dynamic that would return to bite them, he said that western Buddhists need to work through their feelings about Christianity and then walk on. I assume the same would be true about Judaism too.
TCH, for all his Theosophical oddities, was not without insight.
True...He had his moments. :)
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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Annapurna
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by Annapurna »

tiltbillings wrote:
Annabel wrote:
A lot of ex-Christians, including those who are "self-professed Buddhists," have a great deal of anger and other uncomfortable negative feelings concerning their Xtian background. There is a lot of ingrained stuff that is often in the background, and one's "relationship" with "god" is rarely intellectual, but rather emotional. It is a huge move going from Xtianity to Buddhism, particularly Theravada.
Yes, that is an explanation. The solution:


'He insulted me, hit me, beat me, robbed me' —
for those who don't brood on this,
hostility is stilled.
Easier said than done, given the emotional grips such things as one early religious training can engender. It helps, for some, to take a careful look at the issues.
Yes, easier said than done. Absolutely.
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by acinteyyo »

Funny that most of this thread doesn't deal with the question.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by Sanghamitta »

Thats because in Buddhist thought the question has no meaning. Might as well ask why the Flying Spaghetti Monster allows baseball.
If its answers that are required then the question needs to be posted on a Theist website.
Last edited by Sanghamitta on Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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Re: Why does God allow natural disasters?

Post by notself »

This is a snip from The Wedge Strategy which was included accidentally with the document production in the Kitzmiller v Dover case about Intelligent Design. If you think that Christianity in America is benign and tolerant, you need to read this link. The goal of these Christians is to destroy the scientific method and establish a Christian theocracy in America.

http://www.antievolution.org/features/wedge.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Governing Goals
To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies.
To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God.

Five Year Goals
To see intelligent design theory as an accepted alternative in the sciences and scientific research being done from the perspective of design theory.
To see the beginning of the influence of design theory in spheres other than natural science.
To see major new debates in education, life issues, legal and personal responsibility pushed to the front of the national agenda.

Twenty Year Goals
To see intelligent design theory as the dominant perspective in science.
To see design theory application in specific fields, including molecular biology, biochemistry, paleontology, physics and cosmology in the natural sciences, psychology, ethics, politics, theology and philosophy in the humanities; to see its influence in the fine arts.
To see design theory permeate our religious, cultural, moral and political life.
Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he is indeed the noblest victor who conquers himself. ---Dhp 103
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