Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

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Ceisiwr
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Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Greetings

Im interested to hear peoples thoughts on faith schools. Here in the UK these kind of schools have grown significantly over the past few years. Mostly they are Christian but there are also Islamic, Jewish and now a Hindu faith school (I wonder if a Buddhist one will crop up soon :jumping: )


My self I find such schools to be bad news. They discriminate against parents that are not of the faith of the school. This leads to parents pretending to convert just to get their kids in. I also think that they lend themselves to segregation, sperating families on faith and making an "us and them" mentality


Also I find what they teach to be worrying. Here in the UK the faith schools has more control over religious classes than state schools do. I feel this is worrying as it allows the faith to indoctrinate children into their way of thinking via and overly unbalanced view, in favour of the faith


There is also some evidence that faith schools are sneeking creationist crap into the education of children. For example I seen on a programme, made by Richard Dawkins, about an Islamic school which encourages children to not accept Evolution, as it contradicts the Koran. They were also taught that salt water and fresh water do not mix (because it says so in the Koran)


I dont see why education cant be kept secular, with a balanced religious teaching and, more importantly, religion kept out of the science class.


Thoughts?
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cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Sanghamitta
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Sanghamitta »

As someone whose children and grandchildren all attended faith schools, (at which in common with the vast majority of faith schools in the UK they were taught mainstream evolutionary theory..) and as those schools were far better than the alternative schools I would be a hypocrite if I said that they were bad news.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

clw_uk wrote:I wonder if a Buddhist one will crop up soon :jumping:
One already did, many years ago. I used it a few times when it was closed to teach meditation retreats there back in 1994 or thereabouts.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Ceisiwr »

In relation to the programme I mentioned, I found the link here


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/fait ... /episode-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Its quite a good watch. Thought provoking
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
clw_uk wrote:I wonder if a Buddhist one will crop up soon :jumping:
One already did, many years ago. I used it a few times when it was closed to teach meditation retreats there back in 1994 or thereabouts.

The Dharma School


Never knew this lol thanks Bhante
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ben
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Ben »

Hi Valerie,
Sanghamitta wrote:As someone whose children and grandchildren all attended faith schools, (at which in common with the vast majority of faith schools in the UK they were taught mainstream evolutionary theory..) and as those schools were far better than the alternative schools I would be a hypocrite if I said that they were bad news.
I couldn't agree more. My kids work at a (a'hem) "faith" school where both my wife and I work. The school chaplain is a family friend who has invited me two years running to teach a class of an introduction to Buddhism to the Yr10 religious education class and my wife teaches mindfulness meditation to staff and students. The school executive is very supportive of my practice and has allowed me to host a one-day meditation course for my co-practitioners within my tradition on the school campus and to go to a retreat despite it being during the school term (if you've ever worked for a school you'll understand how valuable a concession that is).
Like your experience, the school teaches mainstream evolutionary theory and is one of the top performing (academic) schools in the country.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Sanghamitta »

Sounds similar Ben....The plain fact is the faith schools in my home town attract a big proportion of the best teachers...I dont see what apart from some very heavy handed social engineering could be done about that. Many bright young teachers simply prefer to teach well mannered kids in school uniform with parents who support education.
My of my nieces after graduating took a job in a London Borough in a school in a deprived area..she lasted two years during which she really gave it her best.
She then took a job teaching the kids of wealthy ex pats in a faith school in Dubai.
She loves it.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Ceisiwr »

My of my nieces after graduating took a job in a London Borough in a school in a deprived area..she lasted two years during which she really gave it her best.
She then took a job teaching the kids of wealthy ex pats in a faith school in Dubai.
She loves it.

Im sorry if I misread you but you seem to imply that children from poor families are delinquent and that wealthy kids are better


I hope I am misreading you?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Ceisiwr »

As for faith schools. I myself was taught in a state school, which for all intensive purposes was secular. I had a decent education and learnt about all the religions (and no religion). I dont see the need to have certain schools be under the sway of certain religions. In the video linked above some of the problems are highlighted. My suggestion is that it would be far easier and safer to just have normal state secular schools


As for faith schools performing better than state schools, in the video linked above they touch upon the idea that this isnt really the case when the evidence is looked at (i think some research was done or something)
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Sanghamitta
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Sanghamitta »

Her experience certainly suggested that children of families who value education are likely to benefit more from their schooling.
In her first school she spent a huge amount of time dealing with dysfunctional behaviour from puplis and parent/s...where she teaches now there is virtually none.
It is not her role to fix society.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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Ben
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Ben »

Hi Valerie

I tend to believe that the current situation is actually social engineering by neglect. Successive Federal and State governments have respectively underfunded and then mismanaged the education systems in this country and as a result,like the UK, the best teachers are attracted by the superior conditions and pay of church-based and other independent schools. Before we decided to put our kids through private schools, we gave the local state primary school a run. For our oldest son - it was a complete disaster. His needs were not being met and we pulled him out sent him to a private school. Putting two kids through private school is similar to having an additional two mortgages but we consider it a worthwhile investment that they will benefit from for the rest of their lives.
My of my nieces after graduating took a job in a London Borough in a school in a deprived area..she lasted two years during which she really gave it her best.
She then took a job teaching the kids of wealthy ex pats in a faith school in Dubai.
Good for her! Dubai will be a valuable experience.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Ben
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Ben »

Sanghamitta wrote:Her experience certainly suggested that children of families who value education are likely to benefit more from their schooling.
In her first school she spent a huge amount of time dealing with dysfunctional behaviour from puplis and parent/s...where she teaches now there is virtually none.
It is not her role to fix society.
Unfortunately, it is the sad reality - here as well. My wife is a psychologist and the vast majority of the issues she deals with on a daily basis is to do with parents of students. The reality is that there is a greater proportion of people who send their kids to state schools who do not value education and pass on their attitude towards education to their children. One generation conditioning the next to under achieve.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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pilgrim
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by pilgrim »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:One already did, many years ago. I used it a few times when it was closed to teach meditation retreats there back in 1994 or thereabouts.

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I wish I had gone to a school like that...
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by Sanghamitta »

Yup, it sounds a very familiar scenario Ben...

Probably many of the young teachers have problems with their conscience in leaving the more deprived schools...I know that my niece did...we spoke several times when she was struggling with her conscience...but the constant dissonance at school was making her ill and unhappy, which was also true of many of her colleagues. Some of whom gave up the profession entirely..

after having had three years training.

:anjali:

Valerie.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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Re: Faith Schools - Good news or Bad news?

Post by chownah »

If parents take an active role in their child's education and use schooling only as an extension of an active at home educational exerience then there is really very little to worry about no matter what the school.

On the other hand.....if parents do not take part in their child's education then the experience will not be all that it could be no matter what the school.

chownah
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